opening patnership?

[bangla44]

who should bangladeshs opening partnership be in
1.one day matches
2.test matches

[Rubu]

I can tell you who should open, but when it comes to 'opening partnership' even God probably does not have an answer for Bangladesh cricket.

[bangla44]

who should open then?

[Aritro]

A lot depends on Nafis Iqbal's form when he makes a full come-back next season.

[bangla44]

what about tamim?

[bangla44]

do you support australia?

[Sohel]

Originally Posted by Aritro
A lot depends on Nafis Iqbal's form when he makes a full come-back next season.

Very true. I'd pick from a pool of the following for both the test and ODI sides: -

1. Tamim Iqbal, because I don't think he'll do any worse.

2. Shahriar Nafees, after his active rest which must include good performances in the NCL and A team cricket.

3. Nafees Iqbal, plugged into Abir's place as a gamble because we're hopelessly short of true openers, hopefully he has learned something from his mistakes.

Future prospects: -

1. Mehrab Hossain Orion for tests only, after he moves up the batting order due to good performances, NOT desperation ... give it 2 years. I don't see an ODI future for him.

2. Junayed Siddique, ODIs only, plug him in now to get his feet wet, then have him correct his flaws to a permanent place in the ODI side in 1 year, and Test side in 3 years.

3. Nazmus Sadat, ODIs only, plug him into the ODI side in 1 year to get his feet wet, then have him correct his flaws to a permanent place in the ODI side in 2 years, and Test side in 4 years.

4. Raquibul Hasan Nirala for tests only, plug him into the test team as a middle order batsman in 1 year, then have him correct his flaws to a permanent place in the test side in 2 years, have him move up the batting order due to good performances, NOT desperation. He may have an ODI future also.

[Dhruvo]

The opening partnership for odi's: shahriar nafees and mehrab hossain jnr or tamim and mehrab hossain jnr
The opening partnership for tests :golla and shahriar nafees or rajin and shahriar nafees.

[Aritro]

Originally Posted by Sohel NR
Very true. I'd pick from a pool of the following for both the test and ODI sides: -

1. Tamim Iqbal, because I don't think he'll do any worse.

2. Shahriar Nafees, after his active rest which must include good performances in the NCL and A team cricket.

3. Nafees Iqbal, plugged into Abir's place as a gamble because we're hopelessly short of true openers, hopefully he has learned something from his mistakes.

Future prospects: -

1. Mehrab Hossain Orion for tests only, after he moves up the batting order due to good performances, NOT desperation ... give it 2 years. I don't see an ODI future for him.

2. Junayed Siddique, ODIs only, plug him in now to get his feet wet, then have him correct his flaws to a permanent place in the ODI side in 1 year, and Test side in 3 years.

3. Nazmus Sadat, ODIs only, plug him into the ODI side in 1 year to get his feet wet, then have him correct his flaws to a permanent place in the ODI side in 2 years, and Test side in 4 years.

4. Raquibul Hasan Nirala for tests only, plug him into the test team as a middle order batsman in 1 year, then have him correct his flaws to a permanent place in the test side in 2 years, have him move up the batting order due to good performances, NOT desperation. He may have an ODI future also.

I used to think that Tamim would probably end up batting in the middle order if he ever made the test team but I've changed my mind. IMO the single most important quality an opener should have, even more urgently than a solid defence, is the ability to see the ball well early in the innings and there isn't a player in Bangladesh who does that better than Tamim. It's this trait that's allowed players like Chris Gayle and Marcus Trescothick to carve out excellent Test careers despite poor footwork and shoddy technique.

Trouble is, the other parts of Tamim's batting are so flawed that it'll be years before he even reaches that level. He should be in the academy. There are far less talented players honing their games at that academy and training 313 days a year under expert supervision. Meanwhile Tamim is busy being exposed against bowlers he isn't ready to handle yet while lounging about for months in between series.

On another note, I thought Nirala was a middle order player? Why try and convert him into an opener?

[Aritro]

Originally Posted by bangla44
do you support australia?

I follow Australia and enjoy seeing them win, but Bangladesh are my team.

[Murad]

Originally Posted by Aritro
On another note, I thought Nirala was a middle order player? Why try and convert him into an opener?

Nirala was a opener in Under 19 team, where he couldnt do much as an opener.. However, he became a middle order batsman in Domestic cricket and became quite a successful middle order batsman...

Another one is Mehrab Jr, who use to be a lower middle order batsman in Under 19 and middle order batsman in A-team or Academy team but selectors made him a opener, where he fails mostly.. Hes a good middle order batsman..

[Aritro]

Originally Posted by muradnyc
Nirala was a opener in Under 19 team, where he couldnt do much as an opener.. However, he became a middle order batsman in Domestic cricket and became quite a successful middle order batsman...

Another one is Mehrab Jr, who use to be a lower middle order batsman in Under 19 and middle order batsman in A-team or Academy team but selectors made him a opener, where he fails mostly.. Hes a good middle order batsman..

Yeah, I had the Mehrab example in mind when I posed that question.

Opening the batting is the most specialised role in cricket. There's no more surefire a way to ruin a career than to try and convert a middle order player into an opener.

[Sohel]

Originally Posted by Aritro
I used to think that Tamim would probably end up batting in the middle order if he ever made the test team but I've changed my mind. IMO the single most important quality an opener should have, even more urgently than a solid defence, is the ability to see the ball well early in the innings and there isn't a player in Bangladesh who does that better than Tamim. It's this trait that's allowed players like Chris Gayle and Marcus Trescothick to carve out excellent Test careers despite poor footwork and shoddy technique.

Trouble is, the other parts of Tamim's batting are so flawed that it'll be years before he even reaches that level. He should be in the academy. There are far less talented players honing their games at that academy and training 313 days a year under expert supervision. Meanwhile Tamim is busy being exposed in short series against bowlers he isn't ready to handle yet while lounging about for months in between.

On another note, I thought Nirala was a middle order player? Why try and convert him into an opener?

I think Tamim's footwork is OK. The trouble is, his shot selection is often wild and atrocious, which makes his footwork as wrong as his horribly miscalculated premeditations. His technique needs more work. With his current SR under 65%, I think he's trying to deal with some of the issues, instead he should focus on rotating the strike with the rest of our "openers".

Nafees Iqbal, who also sees the ball early, has better technique and shot selection, his problem has to do with Ashraful-esque baffling lapses of reason, often painfully repeated with greater frequency. He is moody and spaces out in the middle for reasons beyond his own grasp.

Abir doesn't see the ball as early, and has more limitations with regards to technique, footwork and shot selection. That said, he has Rajin's tenacity without the temperament, and will improve once groomed and managed carefully.

Nirala has excellent temperament and wants to be a test opener someday, just as Orion does. They need to be gradually moved into that slot based on performances. Mushy and Nadif Chowdhury also have good temperament but don't want to be openers. I'd like to see Mushy bat at # 3 in about 5 years and Nadif competing for a place at # 6 or 7 in 5 or 6 years, if they deserve those places as per a reasonable grooming process.

[Aritro]

Originally Posted by Sohel NR
I think Tamim's footwork is OK. The trouble is, his shot selection is often wild and atrocious, which makes his footwork all wrong. His technique needs more work. With his current SR under 65%, I think he's trying to deal with some of the issues, instead he should focus on rotating the strike with the rest of our "openers".

I think Tamim bats like someone who was blessed with exceptional hand-eye co-ordination and never bothered to take in the importance of moving his feet. I think he demonstrates this amply every time he takes half a step outside off-stump and flaps his bat at anything short of a length. You must ascribe this to poor shot selection but I also think he needs to get his foot closer to the ball when he goes for his drives against full length deliveries.

He'll learn to rotate the strike in time, but his technique is a worry.

The rest of your analysis is spot on and I agree with all points although I still can't get my head around why you think Mehrab and Raqib want to be test openers. Even during that last succession of A team and Academy matches Mehrab made more runs in the middle order than he did as an opener while Nirala was probably the least impressive performer out of a list of 7 or 8 when he opened the batting for the U/19s.

I've gathered that you're pretty close the cricketing community over there so I'm assuming you've heard things I haven't.

[Nafis_BD]

I don't see a future for Shariyar Nafees unless he improves but I do hink Tamim Iqbal will do good as well as Nafis Iqbal. I will have to look at the stats of the future prospects Sohel bhaiya posted!!

[Gowza]

s. nafees, nafis iqbal and tamim iqbal should take the spots (s.nafees in both test and ODI, nafis iqbal in tests and tamim in ODIs)

raqibul hasan has shown to be a great middle order batsman so far, i think he's probably too valuable to the middle order for him to be opening. as has already been said in the U-19s he wasn't particularly impressive as an opener. he could turn into an opener but i think for the moment give him a bit more middle order experience in the domestic comps then try him in the middle order of the test team. if he performs well at the international level in the middle order for 2 or 3 years then think about giving him a shot at opening. i think for the teams sake though, he's better left in the middle order.

[cricket_king]

Originally Posted by Sohel NR
I think Tamim's footwork is OK. The trouble is, his shot selection is often wild and atrocious, which makes his footwork as wrong as his horribly miscalculated premeditations. His technique needs more work. With his current SR under 65%, I think he's trying to deal with some of the issues, instead he should focus on rotating the strike with the rest of our "openers".

Nafees Iqbal, who also sees the ball early, has better technique and shot selection, his problem has to do with Ashraful-esque baffling lapses of reason, often painfully repeated with greater frequency. He is moody and spaces out in the middle for reasons beyond his own grasp.

Abir doesn't see the ball as early, and has more limitations with regards to technique, footwork and shot selection. That said, he has Rajin's tenacity without the temperament, and will improve once groomed and managed carefully.

Nirala has excellent temperament and wants to be a test opener someday, just as Orion does. They need to be gradually moved into that slot based on performances. Mushy and Nadif Chowdhury also have good temperament but don't want to be openers. I'd like to see Mushy bat at # 3 in about 5 years and Nadif competing for a place at # 6 or 7 in 5 or 6 years, if they deserve those places as per a reasonable grooming process.

Are all those statements based on assumptions or facts?

[Sohel]

Originally Posted by cricket_king
Are all those statements based on assumptions or facts?

FHK ...

[mali007]

For both Test & Odi I would pick up Tamim and S. Nafees

[Murad]

Originally Posted by Sohel NR
Nirala has excellent temperament and wants to be a test opener someday, just as Orion does. They need to be gradually moved into that slot based on performances. Mushy and Nadif Chowdhury also have good temperament but don't want to be openers. I'd like to see Mushy bat at # 3 in about 5 years and Nadif competing for a place at # 6 or 7 in 5 or 6 years, if they deserve those places as per a reasonable grooming process.

Sohel Bhai where did u get this info from?? I heard he wants to become a good upper middle order batsman.. He used to be a opener before but not anymore.. He never opens in Domestic cricket or in any other innings he plays.. Then how he wants to become a opener?? His 313* came from no.3 position.. I think Nirala could replace Rajin in the next year. Both Mehrab and Raqibul Nirala are good middle order batsman.. THey are no openers..

[Kabir]

Originally Posted by Sohel NR
if they deserve those places as per a reasonable grooming process.

Okay, here's when I'll jump in to ask you a couple of questions.

I see that you very clearly mention when a player should be given a chance for what. That's a very difficult assumption to make without proper understanding of not only the game, but also these individuals you're talking about.

My question is, what are you considering in your "grooming process"? Definitely, right now BD cricket management isn't in a phase to clearly define a grooming process. All they do is toy around with the players.

Well, while I'm asking you this, I'm getting to feel, there should really be a separate thread to discuss just this - what should be the grooming process. Many of us have different perceptions about it. Nothing's 100% perfect. But there's always the "best" process. What could it be?

[Sohel]

Originally Posted by muradnyc
Sohel Bhai where did u get this info from?? I heard he wants to become a good upper middle order batsman.. He used to be a opener before but not anymore.. He never opens in Domestic cricket or in any other innings he plays.. Then how he wants to become a opener?? His 313* came from no.3 position.. I think Nirala could replace Rajin in the next year. Both Mehrab and Raqibul Nirala are good middle order batsman.. THey are no openers..

I got it straight from the horses' mouth. Both he and Orion see themselves as eventual openers. We'll probably see Orion taking Rajin's place before Nirala who has a longer way to go.

[AsifTheManRahman]

So now that we have a hook up, how about a couple of interviews and a piece for the front page, eh Sohel bhai?

[Tigers_eye]

SN - Tamim ODI. Now.
Tamim - Sadat ODI. 2008 and beyond.
NIqbal - SN. Test. Now and beyond. Next year bring in Viv Richards or Gordon uncle. Any of them would score a century in every other match.

[Sohel]

Originally Posted by Kabir
Okay, here's when I'll jump in to ask you a couple of questions.

I see that you very clearly mention when a player should be given a chance for what. That's a very difficult assumption to make without proper understanding of not only the game, but also these individuals you're talking about.

My question is, what are you considering in your "grooming process"? Definitely, right now BD cricket management isn't in a phase to clearly define a grooming process. All they do is toy around with the players.

Well, while I'm asking you this, I'm getting to feel, there should really be a separate thread to discuss just this - what should be the grooming process. Many of us have different perceptions about it. Nothing's 100% perfect. But there's always the "best" process. What could it be?

Good questions as always K.

Just talking about batsmen, "grooming process" for me means having them play a predetermined number of FC and List-A matches with predetermined performance standards at both domestic and international cricket. NCL matches should be mandatory for all players selected from club and occasionally school cricket IMHO. If someone is too good for club cricket - and there must be a clear definition of "good" in terms of 1) contextual talent assessment, 2) consistency over a good number of matches, and 3) statistics - he should play in the NCL. If he's too good for the NCL, he should play for the U-19 and/or A- team. If he's too good for the A-team, he should be given a chance to play for the senior side.

For prospective test openers such as Nirala and Orion I'd like to see them play at least 30 FC matches, that's 3 years of NCL under the current format in domestic cricket, and average over 40, and 3rd season average of 50 before going on tour with the A and other junior teams. I'd look for a minimum 35 average over 2 years of A team cricket. By that time, I'd expect them to have 50 plus FC matches under their belt. Then I'll debut each in the middle of the batting order and expect him to retain that average over at least 3 consecutive test matches. If they performs well both in terms of runs and specific attributes necessary to face newer and newer balls, I'd gradually move them up the batting order until they're ready to open in 2 years. I'm talking about a 7 year grooming process only their application abilities can accelerate through better than expected performances. The better more consistently they perform, the faster they can get what they want.

It is important to note, both in terms of theory and actual experience with regards to BD cricket, more time is required to truly assess a player’s consistency, and if he fails, the process needs to be undergone all over again from the particular point of departure. For example, if he fails to meet expectations batting at # 3 for our test side, he should go back to whatever number he was promoted from after performing well there. If for some reason he cannot succeed at the test level, he should go back to the A team, but with higher expectations.

For prospective ODI openers such as Junayed Siddique and Nazmus Sadat, I'd follow a similar system with duly adjusted numbers of matches and performance standards. The problem is that under the current NCL format, they play only 5 List A matches per year and club cricket matches are not up to that standard as people like Chacha can still play there. Remember that often the NCL teams are selected from club performers. So, I'd say they need to play at least 15 List A matches and average more than 50 in order to get into the U-19 and A teams. There, they'll need to play at least 35 more limited over matches with an average of 40 before getting into the senior side, where they're performance should be assessed over at least 5 consecutive ODIs.

Needless to say, years of BCB mismanagement and neglect, financial and otherwise, alongside arbitrary selection practices have created the sort of vacuum and accumulated crisis that need to be addressed ASAP. Therefore exceptions can always be made as required, but only according to transparent assessment guidelines and performance standards until we're on a more systematic path. One last piece of information to ponder, Sri Lanka’s Malinda Warnapura, one of their top test prospects, played 107 FC matches before being debut-ed.