Siddons is building towards a bigger plan and a New Ash

[SS]

Siddons is bulding towards a bigger plan...regular plan for regular people..i guess bigger plan for big/fat headed ppl. Didn't know he had comparatively bigger head than his colleagues.

[crikfreak]

i dont like the way ash played.. he needs to play according to the situation.. even when he got settled.. he continued playing the same way.. i just hope that siddons plans' work.. if a few defeats now can lead to consistent victories latter on.. i'm ready to accept the harsh truth and the defeats and embarrasments that are yet to come.. i hope we have a good outcome out of all this..

[Haider]

Originally Posted by cricman
I heard Rumblings that he batted like this vs Bangladesh A in his 67*, now 56*. That Flamboyant Enigma is gonna die, I think he is only A few in the country that can hold Anchor in an Innings and Stay all the way, It may lead to a defeatist approach to some but It can also be a Huge Building Block to build around, Remember JS said results are irrelevent at this stage, It kills us (The fans) but I think when his Contract is up , Wins May come far way to long in between this year ... but his input will have a long positive take on Bangladesh Cricket.

You want a Chadrapaul/Kallis Robot, Irregardless of the score he's (Ash) gonna bat w/little risk. Chasing 300+ you might wanna see the old Ash but thats lightning in a bottle, I wanna see the Ash in Sophia Gardens (no risk), not the one who blitzed England and India.

In terms of building blocks out of 11 pieces we have about 5 set

An Opener (Tamim), A Middle Order Anchor (I truly believe Ash will/has change), A spinning All rounder (Sakib), A finisher (Aftab, management need to know that), A opening Bowler (Mashrafe) and Perhaps a WicketKeeper (Rahim).

Now try to find 6 more, the 5 that we have still have 10+ years of cricket left. And We only played with 3 from the core, Sticking 17/18 yr olds in International is 95% rate of destroying there career only a few can survive so some blame has to go to the selectors, Dolar, Raqibul may be future greats but selectors are treating them like factory pieces

Dude Well said. Sounds like the nail been hit right on the head. I belive what u r trying to say.. I do like the approach Ashraful took in the first game. The moment Shariar Nafees went out.. (dumb a$$) and Tamim got stumped.. Ash knew this game is over... the run rate was climbing faster than a monkey on a banana tree. So he kept it quite and built his own innings... I don't see anything selfish in that.. him getting on form and becoming a better player ..helps the team in general.
And about u clarifying bout 5 solid players that we hav and need 6 more to solve the puzzle... I like the sound of that.. Those six more is gonna take time to come but if we follow siddon .. and understand what direction he is going.. This team will do a lot better than what we are used to.
About the selectors... how they treating the young talents as factory pieces.. haha... Dude u should definetely consider writing a letter to the selctors and the BCB ... they need some sense put into their small brains

[Fazal]

Biiger plan or no plan I don't know....but one thing is for sure.... the whole team, the master plan is focused and Dedicated for one thing and one thing only ... i.e. fixing Ash's problem...so i say why not change the team's name then like "Motin XI" something like that and designate Siddon as Motin's personal coach.

[Haider]

Now after all said..,. Let see what the next game against India has to offer. Now hoping Ash keeps his temper and play sensibly.. and if he does .. no matter what the outcome of the game.. if he can survive and score few runs.. I am definetely gonna be a believer that it's siddon who is training ash to become a better batsman and play the game using brain power (tactics) and not only natural talent.

[SS]

Originally Posted by Fazal
Biiger plan or no plan I don't know....but one thing is for sure.... the whole team, the master plan is focused and Dedicated for one thing and one thing only ... i.e. fixing Ash's problem...so i say why not change the team's name then like "Motin XI" something like that and designate Siddon as Motin's personal coach.

Motin bhai er shathe ki Baker Bhai jogajog ase naki...Siddons (he got shaved like the darowan in chipa goli) re threat marse mone...I guess Aftab and Alok are his assistant. Kutta alee ke dorkar...

[Haider]

Originally Posted by Fazal
Biiger plan or no plan I don't know....but one thing is for sure.... the whole team, the master plan is focused and Dedicated for one thing and one thing only ... i.e. fixing Ash's problem...so i say why not change the team's name then like "Motin XI" something like that and designate Siddon as Motin's personal coach.

dude... u sound upset becuase Ash is getting a lot of focus and attention. Don't forget when Ash gets on the crease.. inlcuding the commentators praises his talent and says his average doesn't do him justice. Now I can safely say.. he gots to have something special that everyone seen in him that draws ppl to his game. And when he fails to perform .. everyone degrades him.. and then when time comes for the the next game.. everyone gets excited all over again . Now not a lot of athlete gets this kind of attention. He is something special... and he draws ppl into his game. offcoarse he haven't really prooved much yet in his 7 or 8 or 9 year career.. yet ppl are still waiting for him to come out of his shell one of these days. Siddon ... who is smart enuff to become a head coach of an international team recognizes Ashs Talent ... and I hope he is doing the right thing to turn our golden child into the speacial player that everyone expects him to be. I hope i am making sense here.. If not it was a waste of 3 minutes off my life.

[abu2abu]

If Siddons is right and this all works (only time will tell) then i think the fans will be nothing but pleased, at least then we could say "yes it hurt, yes it worked".

What BD fan doesn't want batsmen we can be proud of, that can grind out an innings when required or play with a flashing blade if appropriate?

We all want our best batsmen to be averaging 30+ in ODIs and if that means losing every match we play for the forseeable future then so be it. But there must be signs of progress (like ash's 50 yesterday). These must be clear signs, however. For example if ash plays scores another solid 50 against India, then we can argue a pattern is emerging...

[Haider]

And about Aftab... I also anxiously wait to see him bat .. and he also has no consistency just like Ash. But for some reason.. i feel like Aftab doesn't have the drive or will power to become a better patient cricket player in the future.... Hope I am wrong. Mashrafe.. is a fine bowler.. he knows the line and length and understand the pitch... but for some reason his wicket taking ability is deminishing, Shahadat needs a lot more experience to become consistence.. Razzak... one of our best bowler. Mushfiq.. a little bit taller and he would've been the perfect wkeeper. His hight restricts him from catching edged balls.. but nothing is impossible .. he looks athletic enuff so he can spring around and fetch the balls. Saqib to me.. is a good bowler, and times good batsman.. but for some reaosn.. his batting looks very sketchy to me.,. his form of holding the bat and swinging looks very girly.. but .. it could just be his style.. and with that I am very tired and loosing my chain of thoughts .. so will not evaluate anymore players... and frankly not sure why was i doing that in the first place. I am just bored out of my mind.. freaking heat wave is keeping me captive in my house.. can't go outside .. its like a giant microwave..

[Fazal]

Originally Posted by Haider
dude... u sound upset becuase Ash is getting a lot of focus and attention. .... I hope i am making sense here.. If not it was a waste of 3 minutes off my life.

Bhaat ...I think its a waste of 3 minutes of your life . So next time don't waste any more time ... rather enjoy Ashraful Omar Belim's recorded (this) innings 20 more time. That will be better use of your time.


btw with motin.... I am seeing a spade as a spade.... as few people alreasy said Motin doen't have a 2nd gear or a third gear. either have a first gear with lot of power or neutral gear.... ops sorry he have another gear that i forget to mention ....its back gear.
Motin's this innings is no different that what Javed omar Belim gave is us in the past.... if you appreciated those innings then yes you have every right to appreciate this one also... if you didn't and now you are doing this... then I have to say that you are not consistent with your opinion.

[abu2abu]

Also it's worth remembering how young these guys are. we talk about Alok Kapali as if he's the Ramprakash of BD cricket, a talented individual and fine domestic player who failed to reach his potential at the highest level. But he's only 24, we shouldn't assume he's finished! Ramps is nearing his 40s, he is finished.

Similarly, ash is only 24 I think i'm right in saying he's one of the youngest test captains ever. Even the mighty Graeme smith was older when he got the South Africa captaincy.

These guys have plenty of time to learn. If they keep playing at the highest level and keep learning, who knows how good they will be in 3-5 year's time?

[Baundule]

Originally Posted by Haider
dude... u sound upset becuase Ash is getting a lot of focus and attention. Don't forget when Ash gets on the crease.. inlcuding the commentators praises his talent and says his average doesn't do him justice. Now I can safely say.. he gots to have something special that everyone seen in him that draws ppl to his game. And when he fails to perform .. everyone degrades him.. and then when time comes for the the next game.. everyone gets excited all over again . Now not a lot of athlete gets this kind of attention. He is something special... and he draws ppl into his game. offcoarse he haven't really prooved much yet in his 7 or 8 or 9 year career.. yet ppl are still waiting for him to come out of his shell one of these days. Siddon ... who is smart enuff to become a head coach of an international team recognizes Ashs Talent ... and I hope he is doing the right thing to turn our golden child into the speacial player that everyone expects him to be. I hope i am making sense here.. If not it was a waste of 3 minutes off my life.

I also wasted my 1 minute 10 seconds.

[mafizraju]

Originally Posted by Fazal
Bhaat ...I think its a waste of 3 minutes of your life . So next time don't waste any more time ... rather enjoy Ashraful Omar Belim's recorded (this) innings 20 more time. That will be better use of your time.


btw with motin.... I am seeing a spade as a spade.... as few people alreasy said Motin doen't have a 2nd gear or a third gear. either have a first gear with lot of power or neutral gear.... ops sorry he have another gear that i forget to mention ....its back gear.
Motin's this innings is no different that what Javed omar Belim gave is us in the past.... if you appreciated those innings then yes you have every right to appreciate this one also... if you didn't and now you are doing this... then I have to say that you are not consistent with your opinion.

I dont see anything wrong in the new approach. If we can gurantee a consistent ASH at the expense of a flamboyance and Eid Ash, I would take a consistent one. who is regularly scoring a half century and giving the middle order the kind of solid backbone desperately needed.

JO was never consistent. If he was able in consistently giving us a 50, he would still be in the team and would probably be the highest run scorer in ODI for bangladesh by long way out and would in 4000 runs mark by now.

I need consistently 240 runs. and that is possible if the players are consistent with on avg of 80% strike rate

[Fazal]

JO was not talented but he was much consitent than Ash. And One JO type innings from Ash doesn't suddenly make Ash more consistent. We have to wait adn see how consistent Ash turn out in this new approach. Just don't forget that Ash wash shaky at the begining and got one life.

Plus when JO was giving us long innings with a SR 60, people was ripping him off. Now some of the same people are praising Ash as if he have done something completely different than what JO did some of his long innings.

Unless Ash knows how to build and pace the innings, he will be either Afridi to Javed .... not like Inzy or world class batsmans who starts slowly but when they are set they exploit the opportunity and accelerate the RR.

[BANFAN]

Originally Posted by Baundule
If our Ashrafool is out of form in such an extent that he plays for losing, he should be dropped immediately. If he is just facing a bad period, e.g., getting starts and then playing a bad shot and getting out (like Jayasuriya in the earlier IPL matches), then he should do the simple adjustments of being more careful about shot selection. Nothing does justify his giving Yunus a maiden over.

You seem to be ignorant of the entire situation. Ashraful has just played an uncharacterstic knock, to prove that he was out of form?

A player in form can only do that. What he did was according to the coaches decision and JS is happy with him for that. So what's your complain about the highest scorer of the team? Justify others role first before you say something about the highest scorer.

What is so special about last over? Was there a chance to win the game? So what's the point? We don't need to be emotional.

[Fazal]

BANFAN, I thought you don't like Siddon and wants him out. Now all in a sudden you are quoting Siddon to prove your point of view in different threads. Suddenly what changed youe mind about Siddon?

His Grand Master Plan focusing making Ash from Afridi Jr. into Jave Omar Jr. changed your mind?

[Baundule]

Originally Posted by BANFAN
You seem to be ignorant of the entire situation. Ashraful has just played an uncharacterstic knock, to prove that he was out of form?

A player in form can only do that. What he did was according to the coaches decision and JS is happy with him for that. So what's your complain about the highest scorer of the team? Justify others role first before you say something about the highest scorer.

What is so special about last over? Was there a chance to win the game? So what's the point? We don't need to be emotional.

Ok, I am ignorant.

Now tell me why an 'in form' player will score a 50 at the strike rate of 60.21%, when the requirement was 97.1%? Did the coach ask him to do that? OK, even if the coach asks him to play an ODI like a 'to draw' test, why should he play this way? Why is he the captain of the team?

Ashrafool came to bat at #3. Why did not he go for creating the chances to win the match? The situation is not like this that he came to bat at the start of 40th over requiring 71 runs!

Ah, highest scorer!!!! Others' failure does not shadow his stupidity and inability. A captain must lead from the front. If he had the minimum sense of world cricket, he'd have kicked himself out of the team. What is your opinion on these?

[BANFAN]

Originally Posted by Baundule
......... Taking your example, Sehwag and Jayasuriya are very much able to control their innings as per the requirements of the situation.

Yes, they can control some of their shots according to situation of course. I haven't seen them ever grafting like Dravid/laxman, They really can't do it in that way. I meant changing the way of game completely. So Ash has proven that he can even bat through without making a lot of strokes, as the situation demanded.

If he was not holding that end, we would have been all out in 25 overs, forget about winning. We never had a chance of winning chasing 233 in 40 overs. Who was there to build a partnership with Ash? Lets talk about what the rest 9 batsmen have done? Understand the reality that Ash faced and lets stop criticizing one of the most sensible innings played by him.

[Murad]

From DailyStar:

Captain Ashraful however was more logical than his coach, for a change, as he was subdued despite making a half-century after a seven-match gap.

"I think it was possible to chase the score but we failed to have partnerships. Actually I had a plan to make a partnership with Tamim and then go for the kill but I have to change my mind after losing few quick wickets in the middle. Afridi bowled very well to dash our hopes," said Ashraful, most of whose innings brought something special for Bangladesh.

He wanted to chase the target. And he knows that only he and Tamim can do it together. But after Tamim got out, there was no one who can do it. Mushy, Alok & Riyad can stay on the crease and waste so many balls but cannot accelerate the run rate at the same time.

If Shakib was there, I think we would have seen a different Ash. Because AFter Tamim, only Shakib can make a good partnership and can accelerate the runrate very well.

[Fazal]

Originally Posted by Baundule

Ashrafool came to bat at #3. Why did not he go for creating the chances to win the match? The situation is not like this that he came to bat at the start of 40th over requiring 71 runs!

... to add further fuel to fire... Razzak scored 26 runs in 25 balls in the last few overs. Why is that? He was not following Siddon's law? Bowlers were too easy on him? The super plan only apply for Ash?...

[Tigers_eye]

Originally Posted by al Furqaan
actually, asides from sakib and alok, ashraful is best batsman we have in terms of milking singles in the middle overs with the field spread out. today ash was in terrible form. he was getting beaten almost every ball for the first couple dozen balls he faced.

ash along with aftab are capable of playing in every gear. thats why its such a waste. if they weren't capable, then no one would speak of ash and aftab failing to live up to potential because they average about as much as afridi does, who is a player with just one gear. remember dhoni when he came on the scene? 183* in just 40 overs and what not...he can't do that all the time. as a result dhoni settled down, often playing innings slow enough to irk the indian fans. that coupled with batting at 6-7 has helped him maintain a 40+ average in ODIs.

basically there are 4 gears: first which is to bat for a draw, 2nd which is innings building, 3rd which is free scoring and 4th, which is slogging. ash and aftab are capable of playing all 4 - maybe not equally well, but they are still learning the game. aftab generally bats in 4th gear, and when he doesn't he's usually in 1st. ash is an enigma because he can bat in any gear, yet throw his wicket away. this game was one where he almost did twice, but apart from that he kept himself in check. today's ash batted in 1st and 2nd gear. the 5th ODI against PAK he batted in 3rd, but threw his wicket away.

sakib is a guy who i thought could only play in 1st or 2nd, but he definitely hit 3rd against pakistan. JO was a 1st gear only player, HB was a 1-2, rajin a 1, tamim mainly a 1 or 4, with occaisional 3rd gear. etc. raqibul hasan seems to be a 1-2 guy, and SN a 1,2,3 guy who just always gets out for 25 runs or less.

Salaam bro,
That is your perception. Mine is Aftab can only play the #4 type. He is trying to learn the #1. Ash can play #1 and #4. He has long way to go to learn #2 and #3 in ODIs. The one who can play all for is Mohammad Yusuf. If you want to compare then compare with the standard.

[Baundule]

Originally Posted by BANFAN
Yes, they can control some of their shots according to situation of course. I haven't seen them ever grafting like Dravid/laxman, They really can't do it in that way. I meant changing the way of game completely. So Ash has proven that he can even bat through without making a lot of strokes, as the situation demanded.

If needed, Tendu or Jaya can very well change their way of playing. They are not boom booms. They build innings, gets settled and once settled they can pace up their innings. But they are not stupid like Ashfool that they play according to the match situation, they have nothing to prove to the world, if they can be Dravid or Laxman. Our Ashfool, however, proved that he can be Golla, though the match situation demanded the opposite. If you are amused with this ability, it's your choice. I'd just consider it as an stupid act.

Originally Posted by BANFAN
If he was not holding that end, we would have been all out in 25 overs, forget about winning. We never had a chance of winning chasing 233 in 40 overs. Who was there to build a partnership with Ash? Lets talk about what the rest 9 batsmen have done? Understand the reality that Ash faced and lets stop criticizing one of the most sensible innings played by him.

See, this is the attitude, which will never let us improve. We have been playing international cricket for long enough to play for wins. Now, if you think we should not try to score at 5.9 rpo in a 40 overs match, then we have no right to play ODIs or tests. It's a tough world brother. I am not saying the other 9 did not fail. At the same time, my first discards will be those players who play for losses.

[BANFAN]

Originally Posted by Baundule
Ok, I am ignorant.

Now tell me why an 'in form' player will score a 50 at the strike rate of 60.21%, when the requirement was 97.1%? Did the coach ask him to do that? OK, even if the coach asks him to play an ODI like a 'to draw' test, why should he play this way? Why is he the captain of the team?

Is he capable of not followin the coach? Can any player of any team do that?

Look at the following probably you will understand why he had to take no risk and hold a end:

Fall of wickets1-35 (Shahriar Nafees, 8.3 ov), 2-49 (Tamim Iqbal, 12.2 ov), 3-62 (Raqibul Hasan, 15.6 ov), 4-67 (Alok Kapali, 18.2 ov), 5-98 (Mushfiqur Rahim, 26.4 ov), 6-118 (Mahmudullah, 29.3 ov), 7-118 (Mashrafe Mortaza, 29.6 ov), 8-121 (Dolar Mahmud, 30.6 ov)

He was the most sensible player yesterday. If there was another at the early stage, possibly they could take the team to a stage from where an allout attack could get a win. There was none to play with some sense with him.

[Baundule]

Originally Posted by Fazal
... to add further fuel to fire... Razzak scored 26 runs in 25 balls in the last few overs. Why is that? He was not following Siddon's law? Bowlers were too easy on him? The super plan only apply for Ash?...

Siddon should sack Razzak for disobeying him.

[Fazal]

"I think it was possible to chase the score but we failed to have partnerships. Actually I had a plan to make a partnership with Tamim and then go for the kill but I have to change my mind after losing few quick wickets in the middle. Afridi bowled very well to dash our hopes," said Ashraful, most of whose innings brought something special for Bangladesh.

Even thought its true (what he is saying), these kind of comments publickly is very demoralizing and kind of 'moral busting' for a young team when its comming from the Captain. On paper there was supposed to be 6/7 batsman in the team. Now if The captain publickly says that there is only one batsman besides himself that he have trust and the rest are no good....then I have to say that Ash is a quick learner in one sense .... learning from Siddon very quickly how to demoralize his young team with his comments.

Even Ash has no respect for the selectors. Thats what happens when selectors randomly drop players ( Farhad, Dhiman) and as new players (Dollar, Alok) without any justification.