How successful are you?

[iDumb]

Originally Posted by Jadukor
bhai if you don't trust economists and statisticians that carry out comprehensive salary surveys that is entirely up to you. People also listen to Alex Jones so I guess I should not be surprised. Just don't throw random yahoo articles at me. You always bring minimal research into an argument and pass the buck to the person you are arguing with to do all the research and hard work and prove you wrong. I have seen this before and I don't have time for it honestly. If you are the flag bearer brown rich guy in BC then congratulations and all credit to you. I am in my mid 30s and secure in terms of my own skills, life, money etc. I don't wake up with a mission to prove everyone else is an idiot and that I am a stable genius every morning. Therefore I would rather engage with young graduates and talk about my work experiences and industry experiences and help shape perspective than waste time on ajaira arguments with you on Bureau of Labor Statistics data. Have a good day.

Now you are getting personal. None of my posts were personal. When I write 'You' i was talking about general term.

I am not an engineer or a programmer. Neither is you I think (I am not even 100% sure what ur field is beside that it's a good field for you).

You have made a post that makes no sense. You haven't posted anything . All you said is look up BLS but I have countered you few x with data (articles based on official filing data) but you still want to live in your own world.

Try to understand the message first before looking at alternate intention. You are shaping up wrong perspective with your view in my opinion and I am here to give mine a more positive one.

7 out of 10 bussiness fail. Does that mean if an entrepruneur who looks to be successful do you tel him odds are against you you will fail. Even the 7 person that failed some will still say to go for it. those are the ones that learn from their mistakes and implement it next time.

You are an other wise smarter than the empty headed 30 year old here whose reality is somewhere else. Maybe it's time to look at the other data yourself and admit it is not as difficult as people think to make 300K with programming/engineering degree.

Din raat is absoultely right. A cab driver maeks 100K what would motivagte him to cont his engieering degree if he will make 60K?? Do you understand that?

You are happy with your life - that's great. Not all aspire to that clearly <-- sorry got a bit personal.

[iDumb]

Originally Posted by DinRaat.
Aspiring undergrad, here, is it true what they say that GPA always isn't the final deal. Coming from a stereo-typically strict academic focused family, do employers really look for GPA or is it just unecessary hype.

GPA does not get you job. Haha. You are so brown. Keep listening to the ones who got jobs with GPA.

A company will want to see if you can make them money by developing things. This is where internship or side project gonna make or break you.

i never put my gpa in my CV. Only ppl who put that are who are lacking in experience and hoping someone gives them a chance.

[Tausif]

There are quite a few companies that look at your GPA, particularly Consulting and Investment Banking firms. Some of them even require their candidates to provide their SAT scores all the way from high school.

[mufi_02]

that $240k median average is slightly misleading.

a) granted this is median and not mean. I assume this is middle management roles. Which means at least 8-10 years of experience post college. this is not entry level.
b) it includes bonus. corporations tries to keep base salary low but high bonus because they can cancel bonus next year but can't lower the base salary. so we do not know the breakdown. majority of it might be bonus and which is taxed much higher than base. I was taxed more than 40% for my bonus last year.
c) stock grants. tech companies are known to be generous on that. but we do not know more about how much.
d) Finally this is in SF. The most expensive city in the US by far. Other cities with great quality of life (such as Charlotte, Austin, Denver) has 50% less cost of living. So $240 in SF is comparable to $150-160 in those cities.

nonetheless, this is a very lucrative package. it is very competitive and might be above market. but this is not the norm.

p.s. I don't work in tech and so these are just assumptions about silicon valley.

[iDumb]

Originally Posted by Tausif
There are quite a few companies that look at your GPA, particularly Consulting and Investment Banking firms. Some of them even require their candidates to provide their SAT scores all the way from high school.

interesting but unnecessary. I am assuming this field requires passing actuary exam. Learned something. Never heard anyone needing this. Experience TOPS anything.

---------------------

In my college years I got a job in hospital working as a patient transporter during summer. Then internally I got the HR person to set me an interview for pharmacy tech job. In my CV, i wrote all about the things i know computer language C++, PHP, Mysql etc (i knew the basics at that time since I looked at few of my brothers book in high school). the pharmacist actually looked at me and said I don't need anyone to fix my computer just dispense the meds. Then he asked me what are my future plans. I didn't lie. I didn't get the job. It hit my ego.

It was a job ANYONE that can read is able to do but required some qualifications. I didn't have any pharmacy tech certificate but still i was able to get the interview via the hr person but messed up the interview as I probably sounded to cocky there. I should have told him i wanted to go to pharmacy school and trim down my CV to reflect the what the job requires not what I think is gonna make me look smart...

A lot of students have close to 4.0 gpa. It means ZERO!! in most cases.

[ahnaf]

Originally Posted by DinRaat.
Aspiring undergrad, here, is it true what they say that GPA always isn't the final deal. Coming from a stereo-typically strict academic focused family, do employers really look for GPA or is it just unecessary hype.

Having good cgpa definitely helps. But if you have quite a few experience of successful work/project/competition then having low cpga shouldn't be a big problem. Of course i'm speaking from technical background.

Regardless of your cgpa, you should always do some project related to your field.

[Jadukor]

Originally Posted by iDumb
Din raat is absoultely right. A cab driver maeks 100K what would motivagte him to cont his engieering degree if he will make 60K?? Do you understand that?

My understanding is fundamentally different to yours and I don't mind that one bit.

My message to Dinraat would be to think of money as a byproduct of a job you love doing. There is more to a job than just earning a salary. The work environment, interaction with multicultural teams, the respect, praise and appreciation on your efforts, the personal satisfaction of making a positive impact as a result of your work, all of these things should matter to you and inspire you more than just money. Otherwise, people would not work in industries that pay low salaries. We would not have teachers or aid workers working hard to shape young minds or save the environment, or help refugees etc.

As far as GPA is concerned, when you are low on experience anything positive you can put in your CV is an advantage because it would help you differentiate yourself from a 100 other CVs that hiring manager is looking at. However, GPAs don't matter at any level beyond entry level in my opinion. What matters most is the interview and regardless of what your GPA is the employer will want to test you on your experience and knowledge of the job you are applying for. So I would say preparing for interviews is the key and you need to nail your moments during the interview when you face competency based questions. Try to always retool your CV according to the job you are applying for and you can do this by looking at the vacancy announcement and the core skillsets the organization/company is looking for. Your GPA, just like salary, is a byproduct of your work in School. Don't aim for a high GPA but rather aim to gain an in-depth knowledge of whatever you are studying. Once you do that your GPA should automatically be high.

[Roey Haque]

Originally Posted by SportingBD
Hmm. What is love? There are many examples of how men become a different person when the women he loves and marries doesn’t give him a child. Many times, even if the women gives birth to child and it’s a girl, the men wants another, he tries for a boy. The romantic guys those who believe in love say well it’s not true love. Than I ask.. what those men have gone through, have you? Imagine loving someone, but she has some problems, can’t give birth to a child? So many examples of those so called love turning the wrong way when the women can’t give what you want.

Eventually marriage is about children/family, be it covered with the tag ‘love marriage’ or ‘arranged marriage’. The example above I used is of a European, I personally know that person. She went through some tough time, until she had her second child, luckily a boy.

^Yes. All true. Preach on! I want my marriage fixed by a righteous and islamist imam from East London. I want to be lectured on morality so so very much from a man with a beard no less than two feet.

[Yankees]

Originally Posted by Tausif
There are quite a few companies that look at your GPA, particularly Consulting and Investment Banking firms. Some of them even require their candidates to provide their SAT scores all the way from high school.

yeap. For IBs you have to submit SATs for analysts, and GMAT for associates.

Generally in the US, a lot of firms do on campus recruiting, and gpas act as a cutoff. But never once was I asked about my gpa during the actual interviews. Just make sure its above 3.0 so that its not a red flag.

[Yankees]

It doesn't take a genius to figure out Facebook and other tech giants pay a lot. But that is also why they get over 250,000 applicants every year for a handful of jobs. My guess is that the applicants that convert to full-time offer is less than investment banks, which is like 2%. Don't forget that majority of FB's hires come from on-campus recruiting from places like Stanford and Harvard.

If you like those odds, and you have the pedigree, experience, resume to convert, then you'd be stupid not to go for it. But if you can't check those boxes, then don't be surprised if FB doesn't "Like/thumbs up" you back.

And hey, if 2% is good odds to you, why limit yourself to engineering? In every field, the top 2% get compensated well. Become a youtuber, I hear the top channels earn millions.

[Yankees]

Anyways DinRaat, I'm only 3 years older than you so take my advice with a grain of salt:

If you like engineering, then study engineering. Don't worry about the compensation. If you are good at what you do, you will get compensated well. And to be good at what you do, you have to enjoy it. You are spending 40-60 hours a week doing something, you might as well like it.

The cab driver you mention actually doesn't get compensated well, when you consider how many hours they work and how mundane that job is. Nobody enjoys driving 12 hours a day.

If money is your main concern, and 300k+ is your goal, then know the odds are not in you favor as just an employee. You could get a job with a tech giant, but you probably won't. And if you take your advice from an idiot that can barely string a sentence together, then I guarantee you're not smart enough to work for facebook.

[iDumb]

Originally Posted by Jadukor
My understanding is fundamentally different to yours and I don't mind that one bit.

My message to Dinraat would be to think of money as a byproduct of a job you love doing. There is more to a job than just earning a salary.

no one said anything different. Now you are dragging the convo else where. You can love your job and tap the potential of the industry. Chances of loving a job that gets you to build products used by billions of people every day is much satisfying than being a software support for ppl who has trouble remembering their password. Thats what I feel. Do not assume that people will hate jobs that are higher paid.

My posts and answers are targetted and relevant to what one seeks. And not a philosophical one.

The assumption is he already likes the field he is studying.

And this "loving your subject" is an over rated but not a practical advice. If you love dancing and particularly not a good one - I would discourage you to take u to take up theater but try to do it in the side while aiming for something better to fall back on.

Just like there are more to a job than just money - there are also a lot more to life than just a job. Being an unemployed or underemployed lovely dancer will bring many other negatives of life to the forefront.

anyways it's a totally different discussion and losing the focus on the main point which is it is very much possible for an engineering/programming grad to make close to 300K and it is not a rare event. Equally so one should not undersold their skills level based another persons experience without fully grasping the picture of an industry.

Taxi drivers on BLS tells u they make 24k a year. That can not be further from the truth.


I do not disagree that an engineer/programming grad is realistically looking at 70 to 90K annually job. But equally there are thousands and thousands of people who are doing very well starting out or few years into their career. It's not an unique feat.

Just like 7 out of 10 businesses will fail but you are not aiming to be one of the 7 ones failing but enjoying the experience. You rather be the 1 of the 3 and loving it even if the odds are stacked against you. For young people, it is often a good idea to look forward to positive things than be boggled down by negative aspect of anything.

I have 2 engineering friends who are doing side project with 2 different group trying to build their own company - ie start up. Stats are against them and chances of them failing is >95% but when i talk to them it is always a positive one about how if it hits it is a multimillion dollar project or if it goes bust you are updating your skill levels. I am not gonna go tell them listen man u just wasting ur time instead watch cricket it's safer and u will enjoy it more. The amount of extra time they spend without getting paid on these project is commendable. they are putting in a second job hours.

after the project fails they will go into a temporary depression mode but it is still worth knowing and trying that there are options to hit one out of the ballpark.

Hope my message is clear.

I rather be a sad engineer than an happy rickshaw puller any day of the week.

[iDumb]

yes dinraat listen to a 30 year old loser instead who judges you.

[Yankees]

Originally Posted by iDumb
yes dinraat listen to a 30 year old loser instead who judges you.

you take pot shots at me and accuse me of judging? You only wish I was 30 so you feel more adequate.

Anyways I dont really want to get into another one of your mental diarrhea fights. So control yourself little man.

[mufi_02]

Originally Posted by Yankees
yeap. For IBs you have to submit SATs for analysts, and GMAT for associates.

Generally in the US, a lot of firms do on campus recruiting, and gpas act as a cutoff. But never once was I asked about my gpa during the actual interviews. Just make sure its above 3.0 so that its not a red flag.

do they now? maybe for campus recruiting and as you said for "analyst". Those are front office (bankers/traders) maybe.

I work at a tier 1 IB and didn't ask for my school grades/gmats during my interviews. they asked a whole bunch of stupid ques though.

after 3 years now no one even asks anymore about my school or major.

[Tausif]

Originally Posted by mufi_02
do they now? maybe for campus recruiting and as you said for "analyst". Those are front office (bankers/traders) maybe.

I work at a tier 1 IB and didn't ask for my school grades/gmats during my interviews. they asked a whole bunch of stupid ques though.

after 3 years now no one even asks anymore about my school or major.

Yes they ask mostly for Investment Banking/Equity Research Analyst/Associate and other trader roles. If you’re working in other departments of an IB, chances are they won’t care about your GPA/scores.

But Yankees is correct that they do use GPA to cutoff the amount of resumes they have to review. I was volunteering for campus recruiting at my school for a company I interned at that time and the lead recruiter told me specifically that anything below 3.5, put on another pile.

[Tigers_eye]

Entry level job with 200k+?
















































Dream on!!!
Dream on!!!


















It will happen in 2070. I'd be 100+ by then.

[DinRaat.]

How happy are you guys with your life. Honest question, try to give a straight up answer doesn't have to be personal.

[Tigers_eye]

Originally Posted by DinRaat.
How happy are you guys with your life. Honest question, try to give a straight up answer doesn't have to be personal.

In your interview, be honest, emphasize honesty, no short cut is compromised, give examples of your honest work. No one can put a price in that. You will land where you will be valued and this would be unique to all other interviewers. If some reject you then it is their loss and your gain. I am a fraud auditor first, teacher second.

+++

Permanent happiness is in seeking your Creator. The rest are temporary. Be it games, entertainment, proving yourself, woman or women, money (wealth), status, kids, health.

+++
How happy I am with my life?

Al Hamdulillah. All praise and gratitude belongs to Allah (God).

[Jadukor]

Originally Posted by iDumb
no one said anything different. Now you are dragging the convo else where.

No, I am not, you are saying why should Din Raat study engineering if he ends up earning less than a cab driver. My answer to that is that even if the pay is low there are more to things to a job that would make the job a lot more satisfying.

Originally Posted by iDumb
You can love your job and tap the potential of the industry. Chances of loving a job that gets you to build products used by billions of people every day is much satisfying than being a software support for ppl who has trouble remembering their password. Thats what I feel. Do not assume that people will hate jobs that are higher paid.

I did not assume anything. This is just incoherent rambling

Originally Posted by iDumb
anyways it's a totally different discussion and losing the focus on the main point which is it is very much possible for an engineering/programming grad to make close to 300K and it is not a rare event. Equally so one should not undersold their skills level based another persons experience without fully grasping the picture of an industry.

If you were an engineer working for a top tech company I would take your words seriously. As I have mentioned before I trust what the survey on labor market data shows. An average doesn’t mean that is what you will aim for. It is a basis for comparison to where you are in the job market.

Originally Posted by iDumb
Taxi drivers on BLS tells u they make 24k a year. That can not be further from the truth.

I do not know what taxi drivers make, not really my area of interest. But the point is that again you are going back to the amount of money which I have already said is irrelevant. In general, you will get compensated by the market based on your acquired skill, talent, work experience and education. It is reasonable to expect that in a 1st world job market where knowing "mama" "chacha" in big companies is not so important.

Originally Posted by iDumb
I do not disagree that an engineer/programming grad is realistically looking at 70 to 90K annually job. But equally there are thousands and thousands of people who are doing very well starting out or few years into their career. It's not an unique feat. .

Not disagreeing is in fact agreeing. As with any average number, there will be data points both above and below so it is not a surprise that many people have very high salaries. I am beginning to think you don’t understand the concept of an average

Originally Posted by iDumb
Just like 7 out of 10 businesses will fail but you are not aiming to be one of the 7 ones failing but enjoying the experience. You rather be the 1 of the 3 and loving it even if the odds are stacked against you. For young people, it is often a good idea to look forward to positive things than be boggled down by negative aspect of anything.

It is a good idea to aim to be on the winning side. However, numbers do not lie. From the above, we can say 70% businesses fail and I am sure these people also have hopes and dreams and were equally motivated. Competition or competitive markets do not work with gut feelings or sympathy or aspirations and therefore the bottom-line is that if you have the skills, the market will more often than not reward you for it.

Originally Posted by iDumb
I rather be a sad engineer than an happy rickshaw puller any day of the week.

Being happy or sad depends on each individual’s situation and their own perspective on life. I am not arrogant enough to think a rickshaw puller has no chance of being happier than me or Obama. People are born into poverty and people that have the drive make the best of what they can do in life sometimes end up with more happiness than you think. Not everyone obsesses of material possessions. A rickshaw puller may find more happiness in sending his kids to school or by putting bread on the table. He may be content with the cards that he had been dealt in life. It is not for me to assume.

[Rifat]

Originally Posted by Tigers_eye
In your interview, be honest, emphasize honesty, no short cut is compromised, give examples of your honest work. No one can put a price in that. You will land where you will be valued and this would be unique to all other interviewers. If some reject you then it is their loss and your gain. I am a fraud auditor first, teacher second.

+++

Permanent happiness is in seeking your Creator. The rest are temporary. Be it games, entertainment, proving yourself, woman or women, money (wealth), status, kids, health.

+++
How happy I am with my life?

Al Hamdulillah. All praise and gratitude belongs to Allah (God).

+++1 to this post

[iDumb]

Originally Posted by Jadukor
No, I am not, you are saying why should Din Raat study engineering if he ends up earning less than a cab driver.

I did not say that . Dinrat did . Scroll back and re read. I am echoing his sentiment and putting forth the data to show it's a great field he is in.

[Quote]
If you were an engineer working for a top tech company I would take your words seriously. As I have mentioned before I trust what the survey on labor market data shows. An average doesn’t mean that is what you will aim for. It is a basis for comparison to where you are in the job market. [/Quote ]
You should take me seriously because I am showing u real company data. You did not believe me when I said fb interns made 100k.
I have just come back here repeatedly to show u real data and now up all claiming everyone knows that. And I have said above many times bls is a good yardstick but variance is extraordinary . Half of ppl in FB make more than 240k . Wrap that thought around before writing generic comments . Mufi touched on it a brief but none of u counter argued properly . FB compensation maybe higher due to stock options for earlier employees as the their price per share skyrocketed over last 3 years . But u would have to dive more into it and it's a guessing game here without all data available .

I do not know what taxi drivers make, not really my area of interest.

Your area of interest is BLS data and that was an example to show u that they are misleading as the assumption was a brown guy should know atleast few can drivers . I know I do .

In general, you will get compensated by the market based on your acquired skill, talent, work experience and education. It is reasonable to expect that in a 1st world job market

No ****. And ur assumption is what a user in this forum can't acquire those skills ?? I am not sure what you are arguing ?

[iDumb]

Ignorance is bliss . Rickshawpuller can certainly be happier but his world is very small . Bringing food for my family is not really my greatest struggle in life. Not a struggle at all for all of us here thank God.

I just don't want to be an ignorant happy if that makes sense .

[Jadukor]

Originally Posted by DinRaat.
How happy are you guys with your life. Honest question, try to give a straight up answer doesn't have to be personal.

I am very happy with where I am in life and I say this based on my evaluation of my financial security, family, marriage, job satisfaction, and social circle. I have had some ups and downs during my life. My father died before my graduation after a very expensive cancer treatment, my sister in law had a brain hemorrhage and almost died. But as a family, we were able to weather the storm and I am extremely thankful to my mom for the strength she showed in adversity.

I hope this is an honest enough answer for you. :-)

[mufi_02]

thread got derailed pretty fast..

money and income is very relative. there was an article saying 75k/year is the optimal salary. I doubt it but maybe for the author and certain age/demographic that is the number.

at the end of day, money doesn't translate to happiness. but it certainly is important. nowadays experiences makes me happy. going to a new place, trying out new food, making new friends. heck even an important BD win makes me extremely happy. if we had beaten India it would have made me more happy than thousands of dollars.