Sir Salman Rushdie: Knighted by Queen Elizabeth II - Page 3

Alien · #51 June 18, 2007, 04:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Special 1
I thought the whole idea of communism as proposed by marx was not to give power to a few elites and it actually came out just to adress the very issue you pointed out. Anyways, I am not an expert on it. So, maybe someone who is learned can shed some light on the issue.
However, I am not a fan of Marxist is ideas because in theory it is unfair re the factors of production.

From what I know, he became fed up with the growing gap between rich and poor and the class struggle between the poor (working class) and the rich (bourgeois). IMO, if you can't be rich then thats your problem, dont take it on others just because you can't fill your pocket. And religion has nothing to do with the "class struggle", so I have no clue what Marx ran after religion so much. That's why I dislike his ideology and all country that tried to adopt Marxism became screw ups, and so did their personified version of Marxism.

And yes, Marxism does allocate absolute power to the government (controlled economy, censorship etc) and so whoever is in control of the government has the absolute authority. So what's meant to ensure a fair system for all, actually provides for the politically "influential" people. So the exploitative rich is now replaced by an exploitative leader, which works out the same if not worse.

That's the biggest flaw with communism.

Special 1 · #52 June 18, 2007, 04:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alien
From what I know, he became fed up with the growing gap between rich and poor and the class struggle between the poor (working class) and the rich (bourgeois). IMO, if you can't be rich then thats your problem, dont take it on others just because you can't fill your pocket. And religion has nothing to do with the "class struggle", so I have no clue what Marx ran after religion so much. That's why I dislike his ideology and all country that tried to adopt Marxism became screw ups, and so did their personified version of Marxism.

And yes, Marxism does allocate absolute power to the government (controlled economy, censorship etc) and so whoever is in control of the government has the absolute authority. So what's meant to ensure a fair system for all, actually provides for the politically "influential" people. So the exploitative rich is now replaced by an exploitative leader, which works out the same if not worse.

That's the biggest flaw with communism.

I do not think that is the biggest flaw of communism and I think most academics hold the same view about Marx's idea. The biggest criticism of Marx is that his system will not provide incentive for people to exert themselves. If you are a believer of the economic philosophy of more is better, then it is problematic.
Also, what you sed in the first paragraph would be fair only if every one had the same opportunities. Although Marx's idea does not ensure it, it does address it.

Special 1 · #53 June 18, 2007, 04:43 AM

I think the discussion should return the issue of Salman rushdie getting knighted and not marxist ideas

Sohel · #54 June 18, 2007, 05:42 AM

shaad -

Excellent take on VS Naipaul, I couldn't agree more. That said, he remains a master narrator of how he sees the world and thinks about what he's looking at. IMHO, The Anglophilia mitigate the beauty of a novel such as House for Mr. Biswas only in discussions outside those pages filled with exquisitely written phrases and sentences. I love to read him, and from the looks of it, so do you.

I think it was Gabriel Garcia Marquez who said that the ultimate "job" of a writer is to write well.

Alien · #55 June 18, 2007, 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Special 1
Although Marx's idea does not ensure it, it does address it.

Whats the point of addressing it if it doesn't ensure it? We live in capitalist world, which I don't need to point out gives more freedom than any communist nation in this planet. I get to criticise my leader without getting kicked into jail and I can start my own business and buy a cool house buy the beach. Marxism unfortunately doesn't allow me that.

I just believe in the fact people have right to earn as much wealth they want so long they do so within the confines of law, without some poor leftist screaming "Why does he earn more than me? It's unfair!!!". That's all..

And yeah, its better to get back to the topic.

Fazal · #56 June 18, 2007, 04:00 PM

Hmmm... I didn't realized Knighted by Queen Elizabeth is so cheap and so easy to get.

Electrequiem · #57 June 18, 2007, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fazal
Hmmm... I didn't realized Knighted by Queen Elizabeth is so cheap and so easy to get.

'tis very easy, Fazal bhai. All you need are some papers, pens, and an active BSing capability. Oh, and it helps a lot if you harbor some Islamophobic ideas.

I bet Bill o' Reilly is anticipating a call from the queen herself .. he might become a Sir soon.

Ganguly da · #58 June 19, 2007, 03:06 AM

I have a question for all members here....who are opposing Salman's Knighthood...

Let's say, if he didn't write Satanic Verses.....would you today nominate him for Knighthood?

Sohel · #59 June 19, 2007, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ganguly da
I have a question for all members here....who are opposing Salman's Knighthood...

Let's say, if he didn't write Satanic Verses.....would you today nominate him for Knighthood?

No. I don't think conviction of one's own vanity should be rewarded ... unless you're Oscar Wilde among others.

Puck · #60 June 19, 2007, 08:54 AM

i had been following the bbc message board with some interest on this very same subject. the banter from each camp had been little short of hilarious. do feel free to get a taste for yourself -
http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thre...20070619145251

al Furqaan · #61 June 19, 2007, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ganguly da
I have a question for all members here....who are opposing Salman's Knighthood...

Let's say, if he didn't write Satanic Verses.....would you today nominate him for Knighthood?

of course NOT.

forgetting satanic verses, and his blasphemy, HE'S A TERRIBLE WRITER...as warner alleges, he isn't a best seller.

if you write crap about islam and cannot manage to be a best seller, heck a kid with down syndrome could do that much.

Electrequiem · #62 June 19, 2007, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ganguly da
I have a question for all members here....who are opposing Salman's Knighthood...

Let's say, if he didn't write Satanic Verses.....would you today nominate him for Knighthood?

idk ... is s****y writing a prerequisite for the "Honorable Knighthood"? If yes, then TOTALLY.

Fazal · #63 June 19, 2007, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ganguly da
I have a question for all members here....who are opposing Salman's Knighthood...

Let's say, if he didn't write Satanic Verses.....would you today nominate him for Knighthood?

Good question. But I was hoping you would answer your own question first.

I am no scholar in English literature now am I a follower of literature, but as far as I know based on few of the people who read it, the quality of his writing is not that great. So then what brings him the knighthood then? Hmmmm... its not that hard to guess what was the motivational factor for his knighthood.

In British rule in India, they used to give lots of title to few locals that they felt helping to their (British) cause... some may call it a title alright.... but some may call it a shame... it all depends which side you are in.

al Furqaan · #64 June 20, 2007, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fazal
Good question. But I was hoping you would answer your own question first.

I am no scholar in English literature now am I a follower of literature, but as far as I know based on few of the people who read it, the quality of his writing is not that great. So then what brings him the knighthood then? Hmmmm... its not that hard to guess what was the motivational factor for his knighthood.

In British rule in India, they used to give lots of title to few locals that they felt helping to their (British) cause... some may call it a title alright.... but some may call it a shame... it all depends which side you are in.

exactly, he got his knighthood based on his celebrity status which was a result of his penchant for provocative islamophobic prose

mona · #65 June 20, 2007, 01:41 AM

Anyone actually read Midnight's Children? That is the book he is renowned for in a literary sense, not the Satanic Verses.

Shafin · #66 June 20, 2007, 02:00 AM

People,you are actually forgetting the roots of Knighthood,it was intended for crusaders.Like everything else,it has completed the cycle and returned to its roots.

Alien · #67 June 20, 2007, 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mona
Anyone actually read Midnight's Children? That is the book he is renowned for in a literary sense, not the Satanic Verses.

Thats the one that propelled him to prominence. Then came Satanic Verses that made him a well known villain in Muslim world alongside Taslima Nasrin. Though Taslima Nasrin is a low key figure compared to Rushdie.

Midnight's Children is about partition of India-Pakistan. That's as far as I know.

Bengaliprince176 · #68 June 20, 2007, 07:47 AM

can anyone tell me what he actually did to annoy the many Muslims in the world? i mean what was so controversial in his book?

im not tryin to spark off anything, im simply a non-muslim teenager who probably should read the newspaper more.

oracle · #69 June 20, 2007, 09:36 AM

Who cares about Knighthood. Is a pat on the back or a tap on the shoulder with the blade from the Queen still relevant? And the worst thing about this episode is the way Iran and Pakistan reacted- eagerly trying to be the standardbearer or mouthpiece of Islam (which they are not).
Practically speaking- it is Saudi Arabia.

**Nasif** · #70 June 20, 2007, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oracle
Who cares about Knighthood. Is a pat on the back or a tap on the shoulder with the blade from the Queen still relevant? And the worst thing about this episode is the way Iran and Pakistan reacted- eagerly trying to be the standardbearer or mouthpiece of Islam (which they are not).
Practically speaking- it is Saudi Arabia.

None of these countries deserve to the mouthpiece (definitely not the Saudis); as none of these practice Islam.

Alien · #71 June 20, 2007, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oracle
Practically speaking- it is Saudi Arabia.

Why Saudi? Because the 2 holy cities are there? Let's face it Saudi never spoke out when things like this happens. They may have been but they never voice out other than once in a blue moon condemning Israel then slumbers back to digging oil. Practically speaking they are just America's oil pump, nothing more.

oracle · #72 June 20, 2007, 09:58 AM

Well, then who is the mouth piece? I think that "practically speaking" it is S Arabia because of all the muslim countries they do have the financial clout to influence. That is why that kingdom needs to be reformed.

al Furqaan · #73 June 20, 2007, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mona
Anyone actually read Midnight's Children? That is the book he is renowned for in a literary sense, not the Satanic Verses.

fine, that book is a literary masterpiece...so the man is a "one shyt wonder" big deal?

when does ann coulter get knighted?

al Furqaan · #74 June 20, 2007, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shafin
People,you are actually forgetting the roots of Knighthood,it was intended for crusaders.Like everything else,it has completed the cycle and returned to its roots.

interesting...

Special 1 · #75 June 20, 2007, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bengalipri
can anyone tell me what he actually did to annoy the many Muslims in the world? i mean what was so controversial in his book?

im not tryin to spark off anything, im simply a non-muslim teenager who probably should read the newspaper more.

In the book it sed that the Koran when it was first revealed contained not only verses of God but also Satan. The angel, Gabriel who brought the revelations from GOD to Muhammad also brought with him verses from Satan. This Muhammad preached, thinking it was a the verse of GOD. Hence the name Satanic verses.
This was blasphemous according to the muslim leadres of the world. Khomeni issued a fatwa against him without even reading the book, which i find very stupid.