Gay marriage

[Orpheus]

Gay Marriage Ban

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060605/...NlYwMlJVRPUCUl

Senate procedure requires two days of debate before the 100-member Senate decides — 60 votes are required — whether to consider the amendment on an up-or-down vote.

The president was to make further remarks Monday in favor of the amendment as the Senate opened three days of debate. Neither chamber, though, is likely to pass the amendment by the two-thirds majority required to send it to the states — three quarters of which would then have to approve it.

As that hearing gets under way, debate on the marriage amendment will enter its second day on the Senate floor. All but one of the Senate Democrats — the exception is Ben Nelson of Nebraska — oppose the measure and, with moderate Republicans, are expected to block an up-or-down vote, killing the measure for the year.

"A vote for this amendment is a vote for bigotry pure and simple," said Democratic Sen. Edward M. Kennedy of Massachusetts, where the state Supreme Court legalized gay marriages in 2003.

What do you think? Bush may finally come up with something productive. I think we need a nationwide ban and I am not looking at this issue from a religious perspective.

I don't buy the arguments "that's how they feel and we should respect it" because pedophiles can also claim the same thing. The key is age here. I am all for this marriage if they are allowed to adopt child above 21

They can take whatever other benefits there is to a marriage, yes it means you also have to get divorced.

[al Furqaan]

What do you think? Bush may finally come up with something productive. I think we need a nationwide ban and I am not looking at this issue from a religious perspective.

disregarding religion, what logical grounds are there in banning gay marriage? if you are going to deny someone such a basic right, there must be some grounds for you to acertain whether or not gays/lesbians count as human beings or not, and then leave them alone/punish them accordingly.

minus religion and a God, there exists only a society and the (mostly BS) rules and customs they create. if God does not exist, then why the hell should one act or think a certain way just because a bunch of retarded pricks thought up these ideas millenia ago?

thoughts???

[Pundit]

What logical grounds are there in supporting it? Basic rights, hey Al, wanna meet up sometime for some quality R&R?

[Frost]

Orpheus,

do you think GWB or members of the congress are sincere about this issue? I don't think they are sincere. Do you think they raised this issue, because they morally feel obliguated or they are religious? No - they just want to use majority of people's sentiment to win vote or to distract people from GWB's other failures that causes his UNpopularity. They raise this issue only when there is an election coming up to distract people from real issues. It's like "kadiani-der o-muslim ghoshona kora hok" or "selling country to India issue" - the issues politicians in Bangladesh raise in an election year. One of the polls conducted by CNN today showed that only 1% people in the USA think Gay Marriage Ban is the number one issue. Unfortunately, they will keep this issue and abortion issue alive for a while and keep people distracted from real issues

[thebest]

Setting aside religion, I still feel gay/lesbian thing is a disease. It needed to be cure. Instead in the name of liberalism some of us promoting it. Man is also an animal. Is there any other creature who have this unnatural(?) habit? What is purpose of family? Down the line I wonder paedophelia would one day would be acceptable because they can not resist. So it should be legalized also.
I would rather be a so called homophobic than a liberal. May be in this issue for the first time Mr Bush and I are in the same camp.

[Fazal]

[Tigers_eye]

Agree with Frost.
Can't look at it without wearing the religious glasses. So no comments on the Gay issue.

But this is something that caught my eye.

"I am all for this marriage if they are allowed to adopt child above 21 " - Orpheous.

My question is as what? (would take you as a partner or a son?)

[bharat]

Originally Posted by thebest
S Man is also an animal. Is there any other creature who have this unnatural(?) habit? .

"thebest" you are wrong in here , animals can be "gay" too !!. Sounds unbelievable but it is true , it is a mutation of a couple of genes in a "Pathway" that decide your orientation.Extensive research is being done in this feild , and infact I read a "paper" last month Scientists were able to make a "housefly" court its own geneder by mutating these genes.

So being Gay or not is not by choice but a random mutation that could happen to anyone ..It is more Scientific than behavioural .You cannot acquire it but you can be born with it.

I am not sure about marrage but I would definitely say that they need our symapathies (if at all they need it ).

P.S : I have been working in the field of Bioinformatics for the past 5 years both as a Graduate student and presently in my profession.I could point you to resources if you are interested .A normal google(scholar) with the right keywords would give a lot of resources

[allrounder]

Why is there a high percentage of HIV positive among gays?

In US you also cannot marry your own sister, mother, father, first cousin and so on. Why not write against those basic rights violation? How about marrying someone who neither a man or a woman (Fazal's pic) I mean not Fazal's avatar but the pic he posted above. And what about marrying someone who is 16/17?

One thing to note: no matter what laws are there, it is not stopping them from having relationship. So dont see any point of the laws against all these type of relationships? Only thing, all these people dont get the benefits. Damn people, just give it to them what they want, what is the big deal.

[Tigers_eye]

Originally Posted by bharat
So being Gay or not is not by choice but a random mutation that could happen to anyone ..It is more Scientific than behavioural .You cannot acquire it but you can be born with it.

I am sure you are talking about "hijra" which is completely different than gay/lesbians. Gay/Lesbians come from choice of choosing same sex mates. It is a choice. Usually they first become by-sexual then the turn to gay/lesbians. There are thousands of cases where gay/lesbians were living a normal life with having families and then all of a sudden they decide they are gay/lesbians. lol, what a joke. I am totally against it (religious reasons).

[Tehsin]

It's funny how the gay/lesbian demand for equal rights became a gay marriage issue. As far as I know, most gay folks prefer to be single. The only problem they have is, they do not have any rights (health insurance/property, etc.). Politicians took that demand and twisted it. When we (straight folks) look at that issue, our immediate reaction is - NO. Plus - we are sick and tired of hollywood's gay propaganda. Notice how gay folks are the coolest ones, the best dressed, and best friends ? While straight guys are jerks, clueless, and ugly.

I personally agree wih Frost on this issue. They had 6 flippin years to address this issue but NOOOOOOOOOO, they waited until the elections so they can get hardcore 'religious' and conservative folks to run to the polls and vote for GWBs cronies - anything to keep the gays from getting married. To me, gay marriage ranks way down on any national issue. I love the propagande and media in this country. The Media is fascinated by a drunk blonde girl who went missing in Aruba. Fact is, there's thousands of girls/boys who go missing in this country - are their lives not important enough ? We get breaking news about how 'leaders' from both parties are connected to shady dealing. That gets covered for barely a week and then slids under the radar. Cause guess what - there's breaking news on the drunk missing girl case. Holy cow, the whole nation needs to know who they captaured in the drunk missing girl case. It's enough to turn you insane. Are people that stupid (lot of them are, look at the 2004 election result. *wink*)?

Funny thing is, BD tops the most corrupt nation list. If someone takes the time to compile all the 'extra carricular activities' of the politicans in this country, BDs corruption will be dwarfed by the amount of '$' and lives lost.

From Frost's post - CNN poll showed only 1% care about it. It's obvious that the politicians could care less about what the public cares about. Hence, the 25-29% job approval for GWB, not that he cares. He and his buddies have made enough money to last 3+ generations.

[Orpheus]

Hi, the issue raised here is whether or not a constitutional ban a good idea? The agenda of ruling party is a totally different thing and is somewhat obvious. I, as a voter care about job availability, economy, education and health care - don't care much about anything else.

So let's stick to the issue at hand.

I think some of you are missing the point. There is nothing wrong with being gay or anything for that matter. The key is it can not affect other people. Why do you think drunk driving is illegal? You think we care about your life and your car? haha... NO, we care about ours.

If they are allowed to marry, as a married couple they will have certain rights - mostly monetary I can think of. But they will also have the right to adopt a child, which i do not like at all. I don't wanna have gay parents. "being straight" would be "coming out of the closet". See some gay people still adopts children but it's mostly from their relatives I think I am not sure.
------------------------
anyways:
catseye: I think it was obvious - as a son ofcourse.
bharat: you are again talking about being gay. There is no gene that give u the right to marriage Also I do not think it's so easy to identify just one gene or a couple of genes and say u know this is the "gay gene"... A lot of gay scientists tried. There is a big difference between a drosophila and a human being. Also you were unclear on whether the fly turned gay or just switched its sex. I can already imagine that switching the sex via mutation is feasable for almost any life in their embryonic stage.

allrounder:

Why is there a high percentage of HIV positive among gays?

Allrounder I do not buy this argument. It is similar to an argument I heard in a bus in Chittagong. Widespread of degue fever is due a female head of state. God does not approve of that. You can selective choose your partner and be the most promiscuous gay man on earth and nothing will happen to you....

[Orpheus]

Originally Posted by tehsin
he Media is fascinated by a drunk blonde girl who went missing in Aruba.

True I never understood this.

[RazabQ]

Leaving aside my own religious take on gay marriages, I would like to play devils advocate (it's 6/6/06 after all). In this country they have made a big big deal about separation of church and state. Marriage therefore, in _this_ country is a state/legal issue and not a religious once. On that context how can GWB and his cronies declare gay marriages illegal?

[Omio]

kisu din age ami underground die jachhilam, ekhon deksi 2ta Gay 1jon arek jon ke kiss kortese, ami amar cell mob die ota tule nilam, tara dekhe felse, amake jigges korlo pic tulso keno,
ami bollam tomader valobasa dekhe ami mughdo, pore ora amar mob theke pic ta delet kore dilo.

[al Furqaan]

if you stay far enough away from gays, they can't harm you. the only reasons for banning gay marriage are steeped in religion...which is why the christian fanatics are most tied to this issue.

speaking of alcohol...that harms everyone drinker and non-drinker alike. w/out booze there would be less auto accidents, which means lower costs for insurance co's, and hence a lower monthly premium for me (a non-drinker). but not only is alcohol legal, its is promoted by the mass media.

so the 'it harms society' clause is not what is behind this. it is merely a progression towards an Biblically based theocracy.

[layperson]

I hv nothing against gays but personally definitely dont like the notion of same sex partners. I find it disgusting, however i do not look down upon ppl who choose to be like this. That is their prerogative. However I agree 1000000 percent with orpheus on the adoption issue. A child being adopted by gay parents will mean tht we r not giving tht child a "normal" upbringing simply due to the unnatural situation in his home. In this case you can legalize or not legalize gay marriage for all i care but you must absolutely make it illegal for gay ppl to adopt kids under the age of 21.

[Frost]

al Furqaan, good observation regarding drinking:-)

[Orpheus]

Originally Posted by Frost
al Furqaan, good observation regarding drinking:-)

actually NO! alcohol was illegal here but that gave rise to a total underground billion dollar business....with increasing violence. There are a lot of famous movies based on this... don't really need to read about it

So making it illegal doesn't make much sense (especially from an economic point of view), ppl would drink regardless..

This is one of the reasons why i actually suppport legalization of marijuana.

[Tehsin]

On the legalization of marijuana, i am prolly going to give some wrong info but the other day, I was flipping thru channels and I caught 3/4 minutes of a segment on immigration. It said that marijuana/drugs were legal in the US as eary as the first 2/3 decades of the past century (1900-1930). That's when a lot of the mexicans were in the US as it was their land. ANyways, the powers that be decided to ban the use ofmarijuana/drugs and in a sense USED it to deport mexicans out of the US. In some cases, 'falsely' charging them of drug peddling and such. Shadader oshombhov chikna buddhi, eheheheh. Ingrej der itihaash dekhlei to porishkaar bojha jaai. Again, I did not catch the whole documentary.

As for gay folks, I have no problem with what they do in their homes and I know that there are a lot of good gay people. However, I have the same problem as Orphy. With two Dad's/Moms, what do you think the boy/girl going to be when s/he grows up ? What's to say that one of them or both gay dad's aren't really pedophiles ? I know that that's extreme but don't we have a responsibility of helping the kid know that it's not natural to 'love' someone from the same sex?

As Razab said - how about the separation of church and state ?

[al Furqaan]

Originally Posted by Orpheus
actually NO! alcohol was illegal here but that gave rise to a total underground billion dollar business....with increasing violence. There are a lot of famous movies based on this... don't really need to read about it

So making it illegal doesn't make much sense (especially from an economic point of view), ppl would drink regardless..

This is one of the reasons why i actually suppport legalization of marijuana.

in the same vein i would like to quote one of my bangladeshi-american friends when he became exasperated with political campaign issues:

why ban gays from marrying? they're gonna be f***ing anyways

personally, i think it is hypocracy that alcohol is legal and mary J not. but i would favor a ban on all drugs tho caffeine would be mighty hard to give up

[fab]

Wow.. there's a lot of nonsense on this thread.

Originally Posted by thebest
Man is also an animal. Is there any other creature who have this unnatural(?) habit?

You might like to read this guy's book: http://www.nndb.com/people/033/000044898/ Homosexuality in the animal kingdom is widely documented.

I don't see what right the state has to tell people who they can or cannot marry. Would you guys agree if Bush decided to introduce a 'non-US citizen marriage ban' i.e would you be okay if Bush didn't let you go back to BD to marry (KKK types would like this to be introduced, I'm sure)? If not, isn't highly hypocritical to advocate one type of ban and not another?

If your concern is whether or not they can adopt/have surrogate children, that is a separate issue all together. Personally, I would rather have two fathers or two mothers who were responsible and caring parents than a 16 y/o mum who doesn't even know who the flippin dad is.

[Spitfire_x86]

Originally Posted by Orpheus
actually NO! alcohol was illegal here but that gave rise to a total underground billion dollar business....with increasing violence. There are a lot of famous movies based on this... don't really need to read about it

So making it illegal doesn't make much sense (especially from an economic point of view), ppl would drink regardless..

This is one of the reasons why i actually suppport legalization of marijuana.

Prohibition surely generated a lot of money for the the criminals, but it also reduced drinking a lot.

Consumption of Alcohol (1900-1955)
The Prohibition era in the United States began in 1920, when the 18th Amendment to the Constitution of the United States took effect. The amendment, which made the manufacture and sale of alcohol illegal, was repealed in 1933. This chart shows the equivalent in pure alcohol of the beverages consumed by the average adult person in the United States before, during, and after the Prohibition era. Consumption statistics are based on legal sales; those during Prohibition are estimates of illegal consumption. While a popular conception of the era is one of widespread disregard for the law, estimates indicate that most people obeyed the ban and alcohol consumption was cut by more than one-half.© Microsoft Corporation. All Rights Reserved.

Microsoft ® Encarta ® 2006. © 1993-2005 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

It would be a lot better if alcohol/ciggerate consumption reduces to the level of illegal drug use.

[Orpheus]

spitfire can you bring up a similar chart that studies the violence associated with alcohol in the same period of time? The drop in 1915-1920 is interesting... you would htink people drink more during war.

If your concern is whether or not they can adopt/have surrogate children, that is a separate issue all together. Personally, I would rather have two fathers or two mothers who were responsible and caring parents than a 16 y/o mum who doesn't even know who the flippin dad is.

fab, I don't think that is a separate issue. Why do we care so much about marriage and not about them living together? It's because with marriage you are automatically entitled to certain things. So that is one of the main issues. Obviously you can not be serious about responsible parents. You need to be in child's shoes to actually visualize the potential problem.

Marriage before 18 is also illegal in this country. Also teen pregnancy and gay marriage adoption are not inversely proportional.. so the logic is a bit flawed no? unless you are saying we should all donate children from teenagers to gay couples..

I don't see what right the state has to tell people who they can or cannot marry. Would you guys agree if Bush decided to introduce a 'non-US citizen marriage ban' i.e would you be okay if Bush didn't let you go back to BD to marry

ofcourse we wouldn't agree. On what basis the ban is gonna be on, mind elaborating? Gay marriage ban sounds logical to me.

[Orpheus]

Spitfire,
about the chart, it's on avg person consumption, not on how many (or percentage as population increases), consumed alcohol.

It's pretty obvious, with less access (higher price) you are to consume less. Just increasing the price of alcohol will have similar effects. Think of current price of Gold. Worldwide demand is down more than 20% due to higher price.