Solution - of extremism

[roman]

Jadukor BHai, I Did not forget 71. And Will never forget 71. But 71 has nothing to do with civilians of Pakistan. It was few atrocious rulers and Pakistani army officers, and of course some notorious razakars that were responsible for so many deaths. And I will hate them and will curse them till my last breath.

Having said that What IS is doing over there is just painful. Civilians are suffering. who had nothing to do with 71. If we have issues with them, then how are we any different from those who say all black people are thugs or all moslems are terrorists?

No one deserves to live a life like this. 40 lashes, belittling women etc are very common there. This is not the time to add fuel to the fire. Like you said, IS is a problem for all the muslim countries. Our main focus should be on IS now. Constantly saying stuff like o we are not Pakistan, we are not afgans, we are more cultured and educated than them. Most of our fanatics are from Madrassas and from poor families . We were in denials for so long. And Boom. Gulshan happened.

[Sylheti_Beta]

Pakistan was once doing very well, even better than India, but now its in the doldrums. Why so ? From the days since Zia ul Haq introduced revisionist history and fundamentalist mindsets through the state education system to now; Pakistan has come a long way. Its like a snake which is eating its own tail.

I personally know of several Pakistani families who moved out, very well established and educated who are now settled in NY, London,Munich etc; the common grouse was that it was getting too stifling and radicalized for people to go about their daily lives. Excessive religiosity was causing lots of problems said one of my close buddies from Islamabad(now in NY) who was born and grew up (1980-1990) in Pakistan. He says that the beauty of religious mania is that it has the power to explain everything. Once God (or Satan) is accepted as the first cause of everything which happens in the mortal world, nothing is left to chance, logic can be happily tossed out the window. As soon as logic is pushed into second place its a slow dance of destruction.

[MHRAM]

Originally Posted by roman
Jadukor BHai, I Did not forget 71. And Will never forget 71. But 71 has nothing to do with civilians of Pakistan. It was few atrocious rulers and Pakistani army officers, and of course some notorious razakars that were responsible for so many deaths. And I will hate them and will curse them till my last breath.

Having said that What IS is doing over there is just painful. Civilians are suffering. who had nothing to do with 71. If we have issues with them, then how are we any different from those who say all black people are thugs or all moslems are terrorists?

No one deserves to live a life like this. 40 lashes, belittling women etc are very common there. This is not the time to add fuel to the fire. Like you said, IS is a problem for all the muslim countries. Our main focus should be on IS now. Constantly saying stuff like o we are not Pakistan, we are not afgans, we are more cultured and educated than them. Most of our fanatics are from Madrassas and from poor families . We were in denials for so long. And Boom. Gulshan happened.

Well said.

Sometime, I really hate some of my countrymen who despises Pakistani people on the basis of the 1971 war. That war was not fuelled by the demands of the common Pakistani. Infact, more people in East Pakistan desired East Pakistan to remain East Pakistan forever and basically under West Pakistan. Infact, the commoners in Pakistan didn't even desire any kind of bloodshed as conducted by the Pakistani army.

I still don't get why we are living in the past. That war happened 45 years ago. We need to let go of it. The same way Germany these days are hardly scrutinized for what its former rulers like Hitler did.

We speak about our independance all the time. Ofcourse, I am proud to live in an independant sovereign country and it was possible due to that war. But how long are we going to bring that up? Did people forget that song "30 bochor poreo ami shadhinota ke khujjhi". Our situation is horrible is because we are living in the past. Heck, even our captain said after the WC match against England that the real heroes were the freedom fighter.

While I respect the freedom fighters, who have done their job well, their job is over. Now its duty of the current group of people. We need heroes to rise up amidst common people and serve the country, but with this pre-conceived notion that you will not be regarded as a hero unless you have fought a war.

I know my post will offend a lot of senior citizens here. But I think its high time to move on from the past. We need to think about today, and the heroes of today's world. Freedom fighters can't help anyone now. Why do I open the newspaper and everything I read is "XYZ missing" "Hindu priest/blogger killed" "Terrorist attack at location 88". We need to stop idolizing the past and think about today, and step up as a society.

[tonmoy.dhaka]

Originally Posted by Banglatiger84
Not a fan of Zakir Naik because of his tone and his fans who are like cult members, but did Peace TV actually have a role in radicalizing Muslims or is it a case of guilt by association ?

I am surprised that people are shouting why Peace TV is banned, but no one had any qualms when Salman Rushdie or Taslima Nasrin was banned

Both sides should realise that Bangladesh is not ready to embrace free speech. I support the government's ban on all types of hate speeches (against Islam or any other religion or personalities).

If any discussion needs to be done, that should be entirely based on respect for each others opinion.

[rezwansyed]

^The spirit of the freedom-fighters are exactly what we are missing here. We need to stop idolizing the past? Can you show me a single real Hero after the 71 generation who gave their life for your country and for who we are today? None...Nada....Zero. We are in a critical state today because we are not driven by the spirits of the freedom-fighters. All these confused youths are going ashtray because they don't know their identity, they don't know who they are, they don't know how much blood had been shed by the golden-generation so that they can stand proudly and say I am a Bengali. If they knew what it means to be a Bengali they never would've wasted their life for rubbish cause. And you say forget the past. Do you know Shahid Jewel? He was a cricket-player who had all the potential of being an international cricketer but he threw it all away at the call for defending the motherland. You know Shafi Imam Rumi Bir-Bikram? He was one of the brightest kid around Dhaka city at the 70's and he enrolled to study Engineering at the University of Illinois, USA. At the very last moment he cancelled his flight because after a lot of pushing he got his mother's permission to join the Mukti-bahini to defend his motherland. He trained under then Major Khaled Mosharraf and was a hero of the crack-platoon, a guerilla unit who wrecked havoc in Dhaka city during the war. Altaf Mahmood, Jewel, Rumi all were in the crack platoon and their heroics were a topic of the town at that time. Unfortunately they were captured by the help of Razakar collaborators and accepted martyrdom for their beloved motherland. Now these are the heroes who we should be inspired by and their legacy should be there forever for the generations to come in the land of Purbo Bangla. And you say forget the past? You are not only offending senior citizens, I was not even born when Bangladesh was on war, my parents experienced the war at their youth. You even dared to mention negatively our captain calling the freedom-fighters real hero after the WC match. Tell me now, who should he call real heroes? Ananta Jalil and Shakib Khan? The only way you could save our beloved Shonar-Bangla is by installing the spirits of the liberation war sealed inside the heart of every single youth out there. We must know who are we and what we stand for...or else we are doomed.

[bujhee kom]

From Nayok to Villain. Pura Blockbuster.
Time to go back to Hakkani Hekimi Dawakhana.

[brockley]

Education,Education,Education.
Ban hate preachers.

[Jadukor]

Originally Posted by roman
Jadukor BHai, I Did not forget 71. And Will never forget 71. But 71 has nothing to do with civilians of Pakistan. It was few atrocious rulers and Pakistani army officers, and of course some notorious razakars that were responsible for so many deaths. And I will hate them and will curse them till my last breath.

Having said that What IS is doing over there is just painful. Civilians are suffering. who had nothing to do with 71. If we have issues with them, then how are we any different from those who say all black people are thugs or all moslems are terrorists?

No one deserves to live a life like this. 40 lashes, belittling women etc are very common there. This is not the time to add fuel to the fire. Like you said, IS is a problem for all the muslim countries. Our main focus should be on IS now. Constantly saying stuff like o we are not Pakistan, we are not afgans, we are more cultured and educated than them. Most of our fanatics are from Madrassas and from poor families . We were in denials for so long. And Boom. Gulshan happened.

I agree totally with the second half of your post. No decent human being would celebrate the killing of innocent lives regardless of whatever bitter history we shared over the past.

However if you say 71 was the orchestration of military rulers only i would have to strongly disagree. We were subjected to systemic discrimination from the pakistanies long before the war. The army might have done the killings but the civil society never recognized us as equals from the start. We were always going to be second class bangalies. Besides that, if army had done the crime then why not an apology from subsequent civilian governments? How can we find closure if pakistan never apologizes? Any how i wont derail this thread further. Just making my points clear.

[roman]

Originally Posted by Jadukor
I agree totally with the second half of your post. No decent human being would celebrate the killing of innocent lives regardless of whatever bitter history we shared over the past.

However if you say 71 was the orchestration of military rulers only i would have to strongly disagree. We were subjected to systemic discrimination from the pakistanies long before the war. The army might have done the killings but the civil society never recognized us as equals from the start. We were always going to be second class bangalies. Besides that, if army had done the crime then why not an apology from subsequent civilian governments? How can we find closure if pakistan never apologizes? Any how i wont derail this thread further. Just making my points clear.

Pakistani people discriminated us no doubt. And i am glad that we are no longer part of them. But they do discriminate their own kind as well bro. Lahore folks think they are better than the people of Karachi, Punjabi people think they are superior, pathans think they are all that . To some extent I think Indians do the same. Forgive me if i am wrong but they do have north and south clash, brahman, non brahman discrimination.
We bdeshis are not that innocent either. Look at the animosity amogst Sylheti, Noakhali, borishailla, Dhakaiya people...

I totally agree with you on Pakistanis not asking for forgiveness. That is just horrible and uncalled for. They must ask for forgiveness.

All i wanted to say is we should focus on how to uproot isis from bd rather than belittling pakistan at this moment. Our house is on fire and if we worry about our neighbor's house now, chances are our house will be gone in front of our own eyes. Now is not the time to talk about zakir nayek or peace tv (banning it was justified, now lets not waste anymore energy on it) or bash pakistan and forget about a major problem that needs to be addressed immediately. And i believe that it is not wise to seek or wish for another's misfortune. We made fun of pakistan's misfortune. Karma bro..

[MHRAM]

Originally Posted by rezwansyed
^The spirit of the freedom-fighters are exactly what we are missing here. We need to stop idolizing the past? Can you show me a single real Hero after the 71 generation who gave their life for your country and for who we are today? None...Nada....Zero. We are in a critical state today because we are not driven by the spirits of the freedom-fighters. All these confused youths are going ashtray because they don't know their identity, they don't know who they are, they don't know how much blood had been shed by the golden-generation so that they can stand proudly and say I am a Bengali. If they knew what it means to be a Bengali they never would've wasted their life for rubbish cause. And you say forget the past. Do you know Shahid Jewel? He was a cricket-player who had all the potential of being an international cricketer but he threw it all away at the call for defending the motherland. You know Shafi Imam Rumi Bir-Bikram? He was one of the brightest kid around Dhaka city at the 70's and he enrolled to study Engineering at the University of Illinois, USA. At the very last moment he cancelled his flight because after a lot of pushing he got his mother's permission to join the Mukti-bahini to defend his motherland. He trained under then Major Khaled Mosharraf and was a hero of the crack-platoon, a guerilla unit who wrecked havoc in Dhaka city during the war. Altaf Mahmood, Jewel, Rumi all were in the crack platoon and their heroics were a topic of the town at that time. Unfortunately they were captured by the help of Razakar collaborators and accepted martyrdom for their beloved motherland. Now these are the heroes who we should be inspired by and their legacy should be there forever for the generations to come in the land of Purbo Bangla. And you say forget the past? You are not only offending senior citizens, I was not even born when Bangladesh was on war, my parents experienced the war at their youth. You even dared to mention negatively our captain calling the freedom-fighters real hero after the WC match. Tell me now, who should he call real heroes? Ananta Jalil and Shakib Khan? The only way you could save our beloved Shonar-Bangla is by installing the spirits of the liberation war sealed inside the heart of every single youth out there. We must know who are we and what we stand for...or else we are doomed.

You reaffirmed my point that we don't have the heroes out there anymore

If we really want heroes of these time, we need to start respecting them. In Bangladesh, no one wants to bring out positive change but rather be the way things were in the past.People keep voting for the same people that brought miseries in their lives. People talk about women rights but its the women themselves of this country who are forcing the young girls to get married early, and not attain higher educatib

There are a lot of people with a lot of potential who can change the country. But the kind of disrespect these people repels them from the country. We treat foreigners like gods but we treat our own people like **** sometimes. Fact is, we don't love ourselves anymore. India has advanced so much merely because of their love for their country.

But how do we harness it? I can understand the freedom fighters can inspire the current generation but it doesn't work this way. If we want to inspire people of today, we need the people of today to motivate everyone else. Their era is over, our era just began.

[tanvir_nus]

^We are delving way outta topic, that it's not even funny anymore.
Harsh facts: The new generations and there have been atleast two generations after 71 didn't see the brutality and have only heard and seen. So yes, they do care but it is not enough. The patriotism you want to see out of 71 is just not going to be born by what is told and seen and not witnessed.

We are witnessing the current violence and you know what hurts the most? You ask who are the heroes of our time? It is our national cricketers who are bringing respect to the country and yet the terrorists go out and commit such crimes so that it hurts all of us. You know why and how? They killed all foreigners! How sickening is that? They killed ALL foreigners because they don't want Bangladesh to prosper not because Japan or Italy is any part of Crusaders or whatever bullshit they are made to believe. They want Bangladesh to dive into insurgency and isolate itself by first blocking all kinds of foreigners arriving in the country to do good for the country in the economy and other sectors. How many NGOs are run by the social activisits from Japan do you guys have any idea? These guys sacrificed their lives for Bangladesh and the low life scumbags went their merry way to kill them, yes not harm them or injure them but cut their throats.

Nothing will change in Bangladesh, not until as you rightly pointed out that the youths can come in make a change. FFS the foreign minister outwardly called out Pakistani ISI and blamed them for the attack. WTH? Why the F are you so EFFING delusional? There is JMB, Ansarullah and ISIS fighting for control over how many they can kill with the likes of Shibir and Hefajot e islam already existing to add to the chaos and you are blaming an external entity because of the past? It wouldn't have happened if these guys didn't have the experience of their tormented past with which I can sympathize appropriately for the relevant times. Now it is time to unite and fight against a murderous evil entity that exists that live among us like a cancer.

Freaking hell man! Pisses me off to see a promising kid's future get ruined like this. And guess what, not only the cricketers are going to suffer but YOU are going to suffer next if you don't spread the message that these @$$***S need to STOP KILLING in the name of your religion. YOU Are next. Not him or them or her or them, but YOU, YOU ARE NEXT. Nobody will be safe if we don't take a step.

[Jadukor]

Originally Posted by tanvir_nus
FFS the foreign minister outwardly called out Pakistani ISI and blamed them for the attack. WTH? Why the F are you so EFFING delusional? There is JMB, Ansarullah and ISIS fighting for control over how many they can kill with the likes of Shibir and Hefajot e islam already existing to add to the chaos and you are blaming an external entity because of the past? It wouldn't have happened if these guys didn't have the experience of their tormented past with which I can sympathize appropriately for the relevant times. Now it is time to unite and fight against a murderous evil entity that exists that live among us like a cancer.

This situation is not black and white. While allegations without proof is childish at a diplomatic level but you cannot rule out the involvement of other countries using their intelligence agencies to aid terrorists at home. Not too long ago we expelled a pakistani diplomat with overwhelming evidence of acting against our country. Not too long ago Erdogan expressed deep frustration and recalled its ambassador at the hanging of rajakars. Not too long ago Putin exposed Turkey buying isis oil after one russian fighter plane got destroyed by Turkey. There are state sponsored terrorism going on in the world. There are governments that would like AL government to fall. So you have to take all the surrounding information in before you can make an assessment.
In my opinion both internal and external forces are at play here. The weapons stash we found in Uttara, where is it coming from? Sources said a car without a number plate dropped the stash there. Who was driving the vehicle? I understand that the youth are radicalized by internet but who is training them and supplying the military grade weapon?

[Tigers_eye]

Originally Posted by brockley
Education,Education,Education.

The boys who did it are all well educated. Many of them traveled to Malaysia for higher education (that is what I was told). It is the proper education of respecting life that needs to be instilled at an early stage of the education process.

Originally Posted by brockley
Ban hate preachers.

Double. Meaning take the hate preachers in a corner and get the grand preacher to put some sense in to them.

[Simin2011]

The compassion general people have for Dr. Zakir Naik is bothersome. He openly spreads hatred for other religions. He pretty clearly championed Laden for terrorizing US. So basically killing innocent Americans is okay with him? And to think a large group of FBers are vouching for him! *FACEPALM*

[rezwansyed]

We fought the liberation war to shed off the Muslim state identity and be recognized as a secular state. As a Muslim country we are the most liberal and that is something of great pride. Islamic militants could never succeed in bd if we stay true to our secular and liberal identity. If this two values Secularism and Liberalism can be sealed permanently in the heart of every youth we have, terrorism will be non-existent in bd in a matter of months. It is time we invoke the spirits of our golden generation the Muktibahini generation to save us from impending doom.

[kalpurush]

Originally Posted by Vahroone
This is because of 2 reasons:

1. Muslims love playing the victim card. This is relatively easy to do when it can be proven that an 'outsider' is at fault eg: Israel in Palestine, India in Kashmir, etc. However, Muslims killing fellow Muslims doesn't cause the same reverberation eg: Taliban in Pakistan, ISIS in Dhaka, etc.

2. Sub-continental Muslims revere Arabs and consider them superior to themselves. Since Palestine are Arabs (albeit 'lesser' ones) and vouching for them is likely to win the praise of the average Saudi Arabian and co., it is seen as a good tactic to fly the flag for them.

Generalizing is the worst thing one can so IMHO. This is like all "Indian" are rapist!

And where do you find that we think the Arabs came from another planet? Why would they be considered as superior?

And Muslims playing the victim card??

You kill hundreds and thousands of innocent children in Iraq, Syria, Libya, Afghanistan, Palestine along with their brothers/sisters/parents and say that Muslims are playing the victim card? Really??

Amusing indeed.

[tonmoy.dhaka]

Originally Posted by kalpurush
Generalizing is the worst thing one can so IMHO. This is like all "Indian" are rapist!

And where do you find that we think the Arabs came from another planet? Why would they be considered as superior?

And Muslims playing the victim card??

You kill hundreds and thousands of innocent children in Iraq, Syria, Libya, Afghanistan, Palestine along with their brothers/sisters/parents and say that Muslims are playing the victim card? Really??

Amusing indeed.

Agree with the first part (generalising)... but disagree with the second part!!

We do play the victim card, and sometimes we use victimization as an excuse to atrocities committed during the terrorist attack... Such attitude indirectly legitimizes some of these terrorist attacks.... We must be strong in our response to terrorism and fight against it, condemn it without any ifs and buts...

[Jadukor]

Another attack in France.

[Banglatiger84]

Originally Posted by tonmoy.dhaka
Agree with the first part (generalising)... but disagree with the second part!!

We do play the victim card, and sometimes we use victimization as an excuse to atrocities committed during the terrorist attack... Such attitude indirectly legitimizes some of these terrorist attacks.... We must be strong in our response to terrorism and fight against it, condemn it without any ifs and buts...

For a change I agree with you. It is only recently that we see outright condemnations of attacks like Dhaka, Paris, Peshawar and so on

I remember during 7/7, the nyc one, madrid, plenty of well educated, non-bearded Muslims/Bengali would condemn like this

"its bad, but it happened because Muslims are frustrated of US support for Israel" .....
"US is the main culprit"

"terrorism is war of poor"

and so on

[Banglatiger84]

Originally Posted by kalpurush

You kill hundreds and thousands of innocent children in Iraq, Syria, Libya, Afghanistan, Palestine along with their brothers/sisters/parents and say that Muslims are playing the victim card? Really??

.

I will shamelessly paste a comment as it highlights a reasonable response to the "West is killing Muslims"
"The west has from time to time intervened clumsily in the Middle East, but the Middle East has been for a very, very long time a powder keg, especially with the Sunni/Shia divide and the radical/moderate divide. This may be a difficult fact for you to swallow but the vast majority of deaths/murders in muslim countries are done at the hands of other muslims.
The mess in Syria, most of the mess in Iraq with ISIS and daily bombs going off in markets, the Al Qaeda mess in Afghanistan/Pakistan and in Yemen, the instability in Turkey, the instability in Egypt and Sinai terrorists, the Al-Shabaab terrorists in Somalia, the Boko Haram group in Nigeria.... all great achievements of twisted thinking."

[Vahroone]

Originally Posted by kalpurush
You kill hundreds and thousands of innocent children in Iraq, Syria, Libya, Afghanistan, Palestine along with their brothers/sisters/parents and say that Muslims are playing the victim card? Really??

Being a Bangladeshi, why do you care about what happens in Iraq or Syria or Libya or Palestine? There are 190+ countries and 7+ billion retards scurrying about and it's inevitable that a few dozen nations and a few hundred million humans will be sword-fighting. As long as it isn't you, I suggest you stop giving a damn and losing sleep over glorified third world hell-holes.

It also provides the world a convenient platform to club you together and isolate you if need be. If you do choose to disconnect, it's all the more harder - you're a Bangladeshi first and foremost.

Of course, if a Bangladeshi purports a terror attack (god forbid) anywhere, the scenario is different.

[Night_wolf]

Originally Posted by Jadukor
Another attack in France.

I guess their security force is also akash bikash don

[Anik SH]

There is no problem feeling pity when people dies in Palestine, Syria, Yemen etc..

But the problem is when I see you are just condemning not because they are in danger but it's because 'Muslims' are in danger. It looks odd when one never post any sad posts after terrorist attacks around the globe but time to time shows condolence only when 'one' of their own people dies. That is also a sort of radicalism. Yes it is easy to change profile pic in a click of a button when any western nation fall in terrorist attack but sometimes it doesn't prove anything. It is just a show off. In your mind you are not condemning the deaths but thinking otherwise.

People were shocked when they found out That Nibras terrorist of Gulshan had one post in mid 14 that said 'Every life matters' prior to Terrorism . BUT they don't see that the war attack he highlited before that line in the posts were all Syria,Yemen,Palestine etc. So he basically felt bad only for the 'Every Muslims Life' although he wrote 'Every Life'. It was just a indirect terrorist apologist's post. (Also a soon to be terrorist )

Not only Muslims but many Hindus, Christians are radicalized but don't show up. And unfortunately for us that only recently this 'Military styled Terror Organizations' showed up in Muslim society prior to USA-USSR War in late 80s. So radicalized Muslims got a platform. It doesn't mean that particular people of faith are more fanatics..no its just one of the darker side of our Human nature.

[dolcevita]

Muslim should read Quran in a language they understand, it will help them against manipulation.
It's easy to manipulate a person when he does not understand the meaning of the Holy book he fellows (In BD more than 99% do not understand the meaning of what they read in arabe language...)

[Banglatiger84]

Originally Posted by dolcevita
Muslim should read Quran in a language they understand, it will help them against manipulation.
It's easy to manipulate a person when he does not understand the meaning of the Holy book he fellows (In BD more than 99% do not understand the meaning of what they read in arabe language...)

Sorry, that does not make a difference.

Otherwise you would not see so much carnage in Arabic speaking lands, many of the ISIS troops slaughtering and enslaving understand Arabic perfectly well.