Hefajat - E - Islam & their demands

[Maysun]

Nice post, Nasif!

[Naimul_Hd]

Jara nari der shomman/ hefazot korte shikhe nai, tara korbe 'Islam' er hefazot !

আমাকে মেরে ফেলতে চেয়েছিল: নাদিয়া শারমিন



“ওরা আমাকে পরিকল্পিতভাবে গনপিটুনী দিয়ে হত্যার চেষ্ট‍া করেছিলো। সহকর্মীর‍া এগিয়ে না আসলে ওরা আমাকে মেরে ফেলতো। পল্টন মোড় থেকে বিজয় নগর পর্যন্ত ওরা আমাকে মারতে মারতে ৬ থেকে ৭ বার ধাক্কা দিয়ে রাস্তায় ফেলে এলোপাতাড়ি লাথি মারে। যখন উঠে দৌড়াতে থাকি পেছন থেকে আবার ধাক্কা দিয়ে ফেলে আমার মাথায় লাথি মারে। বারবার তারা আমার কাপড় টেনে হিঁচড়ে কিল ঘুষি মারতে থাকে।”

শনিবার দায়িত্ব পালনকালে হেফাজতে ইসলামের বর্বরতার শিকার একুশে টেলিভিশনের স্টাফ রিপোর্টার নাদিয়া শারমিন এভাবে বাংলানিউজের কাছে হামলার ঘটনার বর্ননা দেন।

নাদিয়া জানান, হেফাজতে ইসলামের লংমার্চ ও সমাবেশের সংবাদ সংগ্রহের জন্য শনিবার বেলা ১২টা থেকে পল্টন মোড় এলাকায় পুলিশের ব্যারিকেডের পাশে অবস্থান করছিলেন তিনি। বিকেল আনুমানিক সাড়ে তিনটার দিকে লম্বা সাদা আলখেল্লা (লম্বা পাঞ্জাবি) পরা কয়েক জন এসে নাদিয়া কে উদ্দেশ্য করে বলতে থাকে, “আপনি মহিলা মানুষ, আপনার এখানে কি? আপনি এখান থেকে চলে যান।”

উত্তরে নাদিয়া বলেন, “আমি মহিলা না, এক জন সাংবাদিক। সংবাদ সংগ্রহ করতে এখানে এসেছি।” একথা শেষ হত্তয়া মাত্র হেফাজতে ইসলামের ৫০ থেকে ৬০ জন কর্মী আমার দিকে তেড়ে আসে, আমাকে আচমকা চর-খাপ্পড় মারতে থাকে। নাদিয়া সেখান থেকে দ্রুত চলে আসার চেষ্টা করলে হেফাজতে ইসলামের সদস্যরা প্রথমে পিছন থেকে তাকে লক্ষ্য করে পানির বোতল ও ইট পাটকেল ছুঁড়তে থাকে।

পরে তারা নাদিয়াকে কিল ঘুষি মারতে থাকে। ঘটনার শুরু থেকে সেখানে উপস্থিত বিপুল সংখ্যক পুলিশ সবকিছু দেখলেও তাকে সাহায্যের জন্য এগিয়ে আসেনি।

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[Sohel]

It is important not to conflate Islam with Islamism, especially for those of us who consider ourselves to be practicing Muslims.

Islam is willful submission to GOD as revealed in the Qur'an and everything else referred to by the Qur'an, believed by Muslims to be the unambiguous speech of GOD. The Qur'an also suggests us believers to follow the example of all of GOD's Holy Prophets (PBUT) in general, and that of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) in particular.

Islamism is a genre of political ideology based on particular interpretations of Islam, and a means to attain and then exercise political power through coercive laws and other means of enforcing a theocracy. The underlying assumption of Islamism is that GOD needs us to do His bidding as his deputies on this earth. In the Islamic creed, such co-dependency or association is an unforgivable sin, pure and simple. Therefore, Islamism advocating Islamic theocracy, it can be successfully argued using the Qur'an as the criterion, is not only anti-Islamic but a grave sin.

GOD DOES NOT NEED US TO DO HIS BIDDING! WE NEED HIM!

Islamists believe in the enactment and subsequent enforcement of their preferred brand of Sharia law, and compelling everyone living under the law to adhere to it. By doing so, they utterly ignore GOD's clear message regarding religion and compulsion:

There is no compulsion in religion; the proper way has been clarified from the wrong way. Whoever rejects evil, and believes in God, indeed he has taken grasp of the strongest hold that will never break. God is Hearer, Knower. - (Qur'an 2:256)

If a particular set of Sharia laws become the law of the theocratic state, a goal at the very heart of Islamism, everyone living in that state would be compelled to follow that set of laws. Such compulsion is prohibited, as is perceiving the self-anointed deputies of GOD running the theocracy as de facto deputies of GOD, Astagferullah!

Here's a recent summation by 36 duly qualified Islamic scholars representing the 4 Sunni and the Shia school of Islamic jurisprudence:

this verse is acknowledged to belong to the period of Quranic revelation corresponding to the political and military ascendance of the young Muslim community. ‘There is no compulsion in religion’ was not a command to Muslims to remain steadfast in the face of the desire of their oppressors to force them to renounce their faith, but was a reminder to Muslims themselves, once they had attained power, that they could not force another's heart to believe. There is no compulsion in religion addresses those in a position of strength, not weakness. The earliest commentaries on the Qur'an (such as that of Al-Tabari) make it clear that some Muslims of Medina wanted to force their children to convert from Judaism or Christianity to Islam, and this verse was precisely an answer to them not to try to force their children to convert to Islam.

SOURCE

There is also no room in Islam for anything even remotely resembling a "blasphemy law".

And do not curse those who call on other than GOD, lest they blaspheme and curse GOD, out of ignorance. We have adorned the works of every group in their eyes. Ultimately, they return to their Lord, then He informs them of everything they had done. - (Qur'an 6:108)

GOD doesn't want us to even curse at non-believers, let alone put them to death! Our Holy Prophet (PBUH) PRAYED for them even when they were out to kill him. GOD has revealed Himself to every group and ONLY HE will judge when the time comes.

Lastly, there is no room for religious supremacy in Islam either.

O people, we created you from the same male and female, and rendered you distinct peoples and tribes, that you may recognize one another. The best among you in the sight of GOD is the most righteous. GOD is Omniscient, Cognizant. (Qur'an 49:13)

Think about what GOD says here. He says:

1) Diversity is a deliberate part of His design, there so that we can celebrate it. The way to celebrate diversity is by finding the common spiritual and ethical denominator that unites us as human beings. A far cry indeed from demonizing others as kaffirs as the Takfir-loving Islamists tend to do without humility or thought. They are the biggest enemies of Islam, not any "outsider".

2) The the righteous exists within every group and those who are righteous are beloved by GOD or worthy of going to paradise, irrespective of the group they belong to.

So, the focus is on righteousness. In order to understand what righteousness is, we must look at the following verse:

He has decreed for you the same system He ordained for Noah, and what We inspired to you, and what We ordained for Abraham, Moses, and Jesus: You shall uphold this system, and do not divide in it. Intolerable for the polytheists is what you invite them towards. God chooses for Himself whoever He wills; He guides to Himself those who repent. - (Qur'an 42:13)

Here, GOD is talking about man's covenant with Noah (PBUH) after the flood. Those who uphold the covenant are the righteous ones, irrespective of group. The seven Noadic laws and therefore the keys to righteousness are:

1. Prohibition of Idolatry. The "idol" here also means one's ego. The antonym of "Theo" in Afro-Semitic languages such as Hebrew and Arabic is "Ego".

2. Prohibition of Murder. The Qur'an permits murder under a VERY strict set of circumstances while maintaining that non-violent sacrifice is the better choice because the hereafter is preferable to the here-and-now. Islam is dystopic because the emphasis on the hereafter is perhaps the highest expression of faith and submission.

3. Prohibition of Theft.

4. Prohibition of Adultery.

5. Prohibition of Blasphemy. A believer must not take GOD's name in vain or twist and convolute His words to coerce and misguide themselves and others into violating His commandments for their own political purpose.

6. Prohibition of eating flesh taken from an animal while it is still alive.

7. Establishment of justice through courts and equitable law.

SOURCE

[Zunaid]

Nasif and Sohel.

[Naimul_Hd]

Sohel bhai, please post this on your fb or blog as a note so that i can share with others

[Sohel]

Originally Posted by Naimul_Hd
Sohel bhai, please post this on your fb or blog as a note so that i can share with others

Just go to my FB page and then go to "notes". You'll find two articles on "Islam and Politics" and one on "9/11". Feel free to share them.

1. Islam and Politics I: http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=175486287559

2. Islam and Politics II: http://www.facebook.com/notes/sohel-...s/178167287559

3. Thoughts on 9/11: http://www.facebook.com/notes/sohel-...9/130452982559

[Blah]

Trying to use quotes from Quran to explain the stance of religion is like using google translator to translate quantum mechanics from French to Hindi and then to Mandarin Chinese and then explain the abstract in english; after that striping out all the context and all the contradictory quotes and then explain how Quran predicted the existence of quantum tunneling before it was cool.

I sometime wonder how many people seriously read the whole Quran from beginning to end in their native language and study it and tried to really understand what it says as opposed to selectively take quotes out of context and impose their biased world view on it.

If you study Quran you will see many abstract quotes that can be translated to mean anything, depending on your biased view on that matter on that morning or what interpretation you are trying to impose on someone else. At the same time few chapters later you will find more quotes contradicting the earlier sentences.

You don't need a 1000 year old book to tell you right from wrong. To tell you how to live a good and honest life. If you want to live a good and honest life just be a good and honest person.

The problem doesn't come from misinterpretation of 1000 year old book, the problem comes from letting 1000 year old ideas dictate ideals of current time.

[Zunaid]

Blah - all that you say may work for you and me but for the vast majority today, you'll still have to go back to the 1500 year old book and help them be guided to lead a good and honest life.

PS: it doesn't pay to have a holier than thou attitude. Irony intended.

[Sohel]

Here's what Shaykh Hamza Yusuf Al Maliki said about Islamist activists in particular, and other intolerant political activists in general:

"(Some political) Activism, and I'm saying this as a former activist, activism is often nothing other than working out your own psychological problems in a public arena. So if you're angry, you begin to justify your anger by using objects of your anger, which are justifiably objects of anger. But the reason that you're attacking them is NOT because you're really indignant about those things. The reason you're attacking them is because you're angry as an individual, and you want to justify your anger, so you direct it at object of anger, and that's what they call sublimation. You sublimate your pathology and find some socially acceptable arena to display it ... and this is why you have to have Tazkiyah (al-Nafs), that's why the foundation of our Deen (way of being and becoming) is Tazkiyah, you have to purify the self ..."

[cricket_pagol]

009.123
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you: and know that Allah is with those who fear Him.
PICKTHAL: O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him).
SHAKIR: O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).

Source: http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religiou...mt.php#009.123

I find this contradictory to the great posts made by Nasif Bhai and Sohel Bhai.

[Rabz]

May Allah bless us all with the right knowledge and understanding of Islam and life, both here and hereafter, and Guide us in the straight path, the path of those to whom He was generous and merciful, not of those who went astray.

[ReZ_1]

Originally Posted by Rabz
May Allah bless us all with the right knowledge and understanding of Islam and life, both here and hereafter, and Guide us in the straight path, the path of those to whom He was generous and merciful, not of those who went astray.

Ameen, may Allah guide us all...

[Sohel]

Originally Posted by cricket_pagol
Source: http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religiou...mt.php#009.123

I find this contradictory to the great posts made by Nasif Bhai and Sohel Bhai.

Let me start with a simpler, more accurate translation of 9:123 and its neighboring verses:

And it is not advisable for the believers to mobilize in their entirety. For every battalion that marches out, let a group remain to study the system, and warn their people when they return to them, perhaps they will be aware. (Qur'an 9:122)

O you who believe, fight those who are around you of the rejecters, and let them find strength in you; and know that God is with the righteous (Qur'an 9:123)

And when a chapter is sent down, some of them say: "Who has been increased in faith by this?" For those who believe, it has increased their faith, and they rejoice. (Qur'an 9:124)

As for those who have a disease in their hearts, it only increased affliction to their affliction, and they died as rejecters. (Qur'an 9:125)

Context is everything in a scholarly system and Qur'anic scholarship is bound by its own sciences established over 1500 years of Islamic scholarship. Each signifier (word) in the Qur'an must be defined and contexualized in terms of the Qur'an as a whole in order for us to gain a deeper, more accurate understanding of the concept being signified by it.

So it is important to read the WHOLE THING and also the commentary of duly qualified scholars who can shed important and erudite light upon what we're reading.

The verse addresses "enemy combatants" within its historical, wartime context, not dissenting speech and beliefs. It is important to remember that Islam permits only defensive warfare, or warfare in aid of people who have been unjustly transgressed upon by oppressive aggressors in a physical NOT metaphorical sense. Our GOD "isn't short of words".

Just pulling out a verse can be and is often used to mislead and coerce people.

Here's some context from Muhammad Asad's introduction to Chapter 9, AKA At-Tawbah as the continuation od Chapter 8, AKA Al-Anfal, both establish the wartime context of the verses in discussion:

IN CONTRAST with every other surah of the Qur'an, At-Tawbah is not preceded by the invocation "In the name of God, the Most Gracious, the Dispenser of Grace". This undoubtedly deliberate omission is responsible for the view held by many Companions of the Prophet that At-Tawbah is in reality a continuation of Al-Anfal, and that the two together constitute one single surah (Zamakhshari), notwithstanding the fact that an interval of about seven years separates the revelation of the one from that of the other.

Although there is no evidence that the Prophet himself ever made a statement to this effect (Razi), the inner relationship between At-Tawbah and Al-Anfal is unmistakable. Both are largely devoted to problems of war between the believers and the deniers of the truth; towards the end of Al-Anfal there is a mention of treaties and of the possibility that these treaties might be treacherously violated by the unbelievers - a theme that is continued and developed at the beginning of At-Tawbah; and both Al-Anfal and At-Tawbah dwell, in the main, on the moral distinction between the believers, on the one hand, and their enemies and ill-wishers, on the other.

A very large part of At-Tawbah is connected with the conditions prevailing at Medina before the Prophet's expedition to Tabuk in the year 9 H., and the vacillating spirit displayed by some of his nominal followers. There is hardly any doubt that almost the whole of the surah was revealed shortly before, during and immediately after the campaign, and most of it at the time of the long march from Medina to Tabuk.

Here's his intro to Chapter 8:

MOST of Al-Anfal (a title taken from the reference to "spoils of war" in verse 1) was revealed during and immediately after the battle of Badr, in the year 2 H.; but some of its verses, and particularly the concluding section, are considered to be of a later date. Since it deals almost entirely with the battle of Badr and the lessons to be derived from it, a historical survey is necessary for a correct understanding of this surah.

In the month of Sha'ban, 2 H., the Muslims of Medina learned that a great Meccan trade caravan, which had gone to Syria some months earlier under the leadership of Abu Sufyan, had started on its return journey southwards and would be passing Medina a few weeks later. In view of the fact that ever since the exodus of the Muslims from Mecca to Medina a state of open war had existed between them and the Meccan Quraysh, the Prophet informed his followers that he intended to attack the caravan as soon as it approached Medina; and rumours of this plan reached Abu Sufyan while he and the caravan were still in Syria. The weeks that must elapse before they would reach the area of danger gave Abu Sufyan an opportunity to send a fast-riding courier to Mecca with an urgent request for help (the caravan itself, consisting of about one thousand camels laden with valuable merchandise, was accompanied by only about forty armed men). On receipt of Abu Sufyan's message, the Quraysh assembled a powerful army under the leadership of the Prophet's most bitter opponent, Abu Jahl, and set out northwards to the rescue of the caravan. The latter had, in the meantime, changed its traditional route and veered towards the coastal lowlands in order to put as much distance as possible between itself and Medina.

The fact that the Prophet, contrary to his custom, had on this occasion made his plans known so long in advance suggests that the purported attack on the caravan was no more than a feint, and that from the very outset his real objective had been an encounter with the Quraysh army. As already mentioned, a state of war already existed between the Quraysh of Mecca and the Muslim community at Medina. So far, however, no decisive encounter had taken place, and the Muslims were living under the constant threat of a Quraysh invasion. It is probable that the Prophet wished to put an end to this state of affairs and to inflict, if possible, a decisive defeat on the Quraysh, thus securing a measure of safety for his, as yet weak, community. Had he really intended no more than to attack and plunder Abu Sufyan's caravan, he could have done so by simply waiting until it reached the vicinity of Medina and then swooping down on it; and in that event Abu Sufyan would have had no time to obtain further armed help from Mecca. As it was, the Prophet's announcement, weeks ahead, of the impending attack gave Abu Sufyan time to alert his compatriots in Mecca, and induced the latter to dispatch a considerable force towards Medina.

While Abu Sufyan's caravan was proceeding southwards along the coast, and thus out of reach of the Muslims, the Quraysh army - consisting of about one thousand warriors clad in chain mail, seven hundred camels and over one hundred horses - arrived at the valley of Badr, approximately one hundred miles west-southwest of Medina, expecting to meet Abu Sufyan there, unaware that in the meantime he had taken the coastal route. At the same time the Prophet marched out of Medina at the head of three hundred and odd Muslims, all of them very poorly armed, with only seventy camels and two horses between them. The Prophet's followers had been under the impression that they were going to attack the trade caravan and its weak escort; and when, on the 17th (or, according to some authorities, on the 19th or 21st) of Ramadan, they came face to face with a powerful Quraysh force more than thrice their number, they held a council of war. A few of the Muslims were of the opinion that the enemy was too strong for them, and that they should withdraw to Medina. But the overwhelming majority, led by Abu Bakr and 'Umar, were in favour of an immediate advance, and their enthusiasm carried the others along with them; and thereupon the Prophet attacked the Quraysh. After a few single combats - held in accordance with time-honoured Arabian custom - the fighting became general; the Meccan forces were completely routed and several of their most prominent chieftains - Abu Jahl among them - were killed.

It was the first open battle between the pagan Quraysh and the young Muslim community of Medina; and its outcome made the Quraysh realize that the movement inaugurated by Muhammad was not an ephemeral dream but the beginning of a new political power and a new era different from anything that the Arabian past had known. The Meccans' apprehensions, which had already been aroused by the exodus of the Prophet and his Companions to Medina, found a shattering confirmation on the day of Badr. Although the power of Arabian paganism was not finally broken until some years later, its decay became apparent from that historic moment. For the Muslims, too, Badr proved to be a turning-point. It may safely be assumed that until then only a very few of the Prophet's Companions had fully understood the political implications of the new order of Islam. To most of them, their exodus to Medina had meant, in those early days, no more than a refuge from the persecutions which they had had to endure in Mecca: after the battle of Badr, however, even the most simple-minded among them became aware that they were on their way towards a new social order. The spirit of passive sacrifice, so characteristic of their earlier days, received its complement in the idea of sacrifice through action. The doctrine of action as the most fundamental, creative element of life was, perhaps for the first time in the history of man, consciously realized not only by a few select individuals but by a whole community; and the intense activism which was to distinguish Muslim history in the coming decades and centuries was a direct, immediate consequence of the battle of Badr.

Contradictory only when taken out of historical and exegetical context and comparing apples and oranges.

[Blah]

Originally Posted by Zunaid
Blah - all that you say may work for you and me but for the vast majority today, you'll still have to go back to the 1500 year old book and help them be guided to lead a good and honest life.

I used to think like that too, but honestly no one really follows the book to the tee or even slightly. If they did then most countries and people would be living a life like the people of Afghanistan and probably even worse than that.

The sad part is most religious people only pick and choose the parts of the religion that is convenient for them, conforms with their world views and easy for them to follow and ignore everything else. And then have the nerve to place judgement on everyone else who doesn't share their views.

Most BC members who are living abroad are reaping the benefits of civilized, secular and democratic government that acknowledges the rights of minorities. They have the nerve to take sides in favor of religious fanatics who oppose secular government and who are trying to take rights away from the minorities in Bangladesh!

How fracking crazy is that?

[Sohel]

When not in defensive or just war with the unbelievers, this includes those who consider themselves to be believers, unbelievers cannot be considered enemy combatants. GOD suggests we interact with everyone, including "non-believers", with proper Adab or etiquette:

I. Always Respond to a 'Greeting':

"When greeted with a greeting, you shall respond with a better greeting or at least an equal one. GOD reckons all things." (4:86)

"O ye who believe! When ye go abroad in the cause of Allah, investigate carefully, and say not to anyone who offers you a salutation: "Thou art not a believer!"..." (4:94)

II. Always Say 'Good' things:

"Do you not see that GOD has cited the example of a good word as a good tree whose root is firmly fixed, and its branches are high in the sky? It produces its crop every season, as designed by its Lord. GOD thus cites the examples for the people, that they may take heed." (14:24-25)

III. Be 'Humble', and speak 'Lightly':

"Walk humbly and lower your voice, the ugliest voice is the donkey's voice." (31:19)

IV. Invite to GOD with wisdom and kindness:

"Invite to the path of your Lord with wisdom and kind enlightenment, and debate with them in the best possible manner. Your Lord knows best who has strayed from His path, and He knows best who are the guided ones." (16:125)

"It was mercy from GOD that you became compassionate towards them. Had you been harsh and mean-hearted, they would have abandoned you. Therefore, you shall pardon them and ask forgiveness for them, and consult them. Once you make a decision, carry out your plan, and trust in GOD. GOD loves those who trust in Him." (3:159)

V. Be Kind to your parents:

"Your Lord has decreed that you shall not worship except Him, and your parents shall be honored. As long as one or both of them live, you shall never say to them, "Uff" (the slightest gesture of annoyance), nor shall you shout at them; you shall treat them amicably. And lower for them the wings of humility, and kindness, and say, "My Lord, have mercy on them, for they have raised me from infancy." (17:23-24)

VI. Suppress Anger & Forgive People:

"Who (the righteous) give to charity during the good times, as well as the bad times. They are suppressors of anger, and pardoners of the people. GOD loves the charitable." (3:134)

VII. Counter Evil with Good:

"Not equal is the good response and the bad response. You shall resort to the nicest possible response. Thus, the one who used to be your enemy, may become your best friend." (41:34)

"They steadfastly persevere in seeking their Lord, observe the Link (Salat), spend from our provisions to them secretly and publicly, and counter evil with good. These have deserved the best abode." (13:22)

VIII. Do NOT Say 'Bad' things:

"And the example of the bad word is that of a bad tree chopped at the soil level; it has no roots to keep it firm." (14:26)

IX. Do NOT be 'Arrogant' or 'Carefree':

"You shall not treat the people with arrogance, nor shall you roam the earth carefree. GOD does not like the arrogant showoffs." (31:18)

X. Do NOT engage in 'ignorant' talk:

"The servants of the Almighty are those who tread the earth gently, and when the ignorant speak to them, they only utter peace." (25:63)

XI. Do NOT Curse the Idolaters:

"And do not curse those who call on other than GOD, lest they blaspheme and curse GOD, out of ignorance. We have adorned the works of every group in their eyes. Ultimately, they return to their Lord, then He informs them of everything they had done." (6:108)

XII. Do NOT make fun of others, or call them names:

"O you who believe, no people shall ridicule other people, for they may be better than they. Nor shall any women ridicule other women, for they may be better than they. Nor shall you mock one another, or call each other names. Evil indeed is the reversion to wickedness after attaining faith. Anyone who does not repent after this, these are the transgressors." (49:11)

XIII. Do NOT be suspicious, or spy on one another, or backbite:

"O you who believe, if a wicked person brings any news to you, you shall first investigate, lest you commit injustice towards some people, out of ignorance, then become sorry and remorseful for what you have done." (49:6)

"O you who believe, you shall avoid any suspicion, for even a little bit of suspicion is sinful. You shall not spy on one another, nor shall you backbite one another; this is as abominable as eating the flesh of your dead brother. You certainly abhor this. You shall observe GOD. GOD is Redeemer, Most Merciful." (49:12)

XIV. Do NOT be 'Racist':

"O people, we created you from the same male and female, and rendered you distinct peoples and tribes, that you may recognize one another. The best among you in the sight of GOD is the most righteous. GOD is Omniscient, Cognizant." (49:13)

Islam isn't a political identity, but humble and willful submission to GOD. So how Islamic are these Islamists when they decontexualize, convolute and then transgress GOD's clear suggestions?

[Alien]

This country is getting scr*wed by triangle of morons whose narrow-mindedness is just unimaginable.

1) "Atheist" Bloggers
Under the pretext of "free speech", these intellectual wannabes thinks because they are free thinking Atheist and they know how to setup a online blog, have the right to nit-pick on other people's faith. While I strongly believe in their right to express their opinon, Bangladesh end of the day is not Netherlands where you can house the likes of Geert Wilders here. You pick on a sensitive matter like religion and you are sure get backlash which by the way will affect a lot of bystanders.

2) Shahbag Protesters
In a country with a bleak future in terms of economy and living standards, these bums are hell bent on settling scores of the past. You don't see Cambodians scream Pol-Pot er fashi chai!! or holocaust survivor screaming Adolf Eichmann er fashi chaii!!!!...far from it. And these are far greater atrocities than 1971.

No civilised society which suffered atrocity on par or greater than 1971 do what Shabagh protesters do. If you want justice there are other ways than occupying a main square.


3) Hefajat e Islam

They group should be called Hefajat e Jamaat because that what they are trying to safeguard - the influence of Jamaat. Islam or Quran does not need to be safeguarded by anyone. These fundamentalists, who obviously memorized by never understood a word of Quran of does not have the intellect to do so. They embody the saying olpo bidda bhoyonkor.

In my opinion, whats worse than a handful of atheist bloggers that majority ignores, is a army of radicals who claim to be Islamic while distorting the religion and like blackhole does to space time.

When I went to do Hajj many years back lot of nearly all of these these hujurs or Mollahs look stone faced when Saudis Hajj officials spoke Arabic, and knows jack when asked to interpret. What Madrassas teach you is Alif ba ta sa.... memorize a whole heap of verses if not the whole Quran (dont worry about analysing it or understanding it), and understand some dubious hadiths and sayings of Mullahs that clearly contradicts Quran or what Islam is about.

[Zunaid]

This is not a triangle. It's polygon. Don't forget some of the other sides responsible for this debacle - particularly Jamaatis (who are happy to be out of the limelight now), BNP (playing with fire and about to burn the house down), AL (powerless and running scared with their tail running between their legs), and many more.

[Sun_]

Originally Posted by Abu Ayyub
Well that calls for the leaders of Shahbag to be punished since most of them have blasphemed. What's interesting they are leading this secular campaign and the people following it blindly. 34 million people voting for a secular party does not help the argument that the people support a secular state. Majority of the people (as I have quote above^) don't believe in a secular state. If Bangladesh really is a secular state, has it proven a success in these events? It has led to further turmoil and divisions in society. The solution for Bangladesh, the middle path.

হাছা কথা কইয়েছেন আবু। হেফাজতি ছাড়া দেশের হেফাজত অসম্ভব। দেশের অবস্থাটা চিন্তা করেন, কি যে বাজে অবস্থা। সাইদি সাহেব তো চাঁদে যেয়ে মহা সুখে দিন কাটাচ্ছেন আর এদিকে আমরা কি যন্ত্রণায় যে আসি তা আপনাকে বলে বোঝাতে পারব না। শিবির শিশুদের ভালবাসার যন্ত্রণায় আমাদের প্রাণ ওষ্ঠাগত প্রায়। তারা রাত নেই দিন নেই সবাইকে শুধু ফুলেল ভালবাসা দিয়ে যাচ্ছে, তবে কোন এক অদ্ভুত কারণে ট্রেন আর পুলিশ এর প্রতি তাদের ভালবাসার প্রগাড়তা একটু বেশি।এহেন discrimination দেখে শাহাবাগিরা অভিমান করে তাদের জিজ্ঞেস করেছিল হে ধর্মরক্ষক, ঠোলাদের প্রতি তুমাদের কেন এত স্নেহ ভালবাসা, আমরা শাহাবাগিরা কি এমন দুষ করলাম যে আমাদের প্রতি তুমরা ফিরেও তাকাচ্ছ না। প্রতিউত্তরে ধর্মরক্ষক শিবির ভাইয়েরা স্মিত হেসে জবাব দিয়েছেন ওহে শাহাবাগিগন তুমরা তো নাস্তিক,ভালবাসার তুমরা কি বুঝবা। এইটা হইল বেহেস্তি ব্যাপার-স্যাপার।


তবে আশার কথা হল হেফাজতিরা তিন কুটি টাকা খরচ করে শুধুমাত্র শাহাবাগিদের খেদমত করার জন্য পায়ে হেটে ঢাকা চলে এসেছেন। তারা দেশকে মধ্যযুগীয় উন্নতির চরম শিখরে নিয়ে যাবার জন্য ঐতিহাসিক তের দফা দাবি উত্থাপন করেছেন।এই তের দফা দাবি দেখে শাহাবাগিরা তো বটেই বলতে গেলে সারা দেশবাসী গতকাল বিকাল থেকে শুধু হেফাজতি জিন্দাবাদ,হেফাজতি জিন্দাবাদ করে যাচ্ছেন। কোনভাবেই তাদের মুখ বন্ধ করা যাচ্ছেনা।দেশের এই চরম আনন্দকর মুহুরতে ইসলামের মূল হেফাজতকারি বিশ্ব-জ্ঞানী,অদ্বিতীয় ওঅনিন্দ্য প্রতিভার অধিকারী আল্লামা মেশিন সাইদির মন্তব্য জানার জন্য চাঁদে যোগাযোগ করা হলেও তাকে পাওয়া যায় নি। তবে চাঁদের বুড়িকে পাওয়া গিয়েছিল। তার কাছে সাইদির চন্দ্রনিবাস সম্পর্কে জানতে চাওয়া হলে তিনি বলেন তাকে মানে চাঁদের বুড়িকে দেখার পর সাইদির অতীতসু-অভ্যাস ফিরে এসেছে। অতীতের কোন অভ্যাস সাইদির মধ্যে পুনরায় জাগ্রত হয়েছে এই বিষয়েচন্দ্রবুড়ির কাছে জানতে চাওয়া হলে তিনি কোন জবাব না দিয়ে শুধু একটা মুচকি হাসি দিয়েছেন।

............ হেফাজতি ছাড়া বাঙ্গালির গতি নাই।অবিলম্বে যেন সরকার বাহাদুর হেফাযতের উপর বাংলাদেশ হেফাযতের পবিত্র দায়িত্ব অর্পণ করেন সেই দাবি জানাচ্ছি।ইস্ট অর ওয়েস্ট হেফাজতি ইজ দি বেস্ট। হেফাজতি জিন্দাবাদ।

[Naimul_Hd]

^^^^ brilliant post ! Hashte hashte sesh !!!

[Gladiators]

Originally Posted by Alien
This country is getting scr*wed by triangle of morons whose narrow-mindedness is just unimaginable.

1) "Atheist" Bloggers
Under the pretext of "free speech", these intellectual wannabes thinks because they are free thinking Atheist and they know how to setup a online blog, have the right to nit-pick on other people's faith. While I strongly believe in their right to express their opinon, Bangladesh end of the day is not Netherlands where you can house the likes of Geert Wilders here. You pick on a sensitive matter like religion and you are sure get backlash which by the way will affect a lot of bystanders.

2) Shahbag Protesters
In a country with a bleak future in terms of economy and living standards, these bums are hell bent on settling scores of the past. You don't see Cambodians scream Pol-Pot er fashi chai!! or holocaust survivor screaming Adolf Eichmann er fashi chaii!!!!...far from it. And these are far greater atrocities than 1971.

No civilised society which suffered atrocity on par or greater than 1971 do what Shabagh protesters do. If you want justice there are other ways than occupying a main square.

There are over 300,000 Bangladeshi bloggers - and most have been blogging for 5-8 years. Where was this outcry against so called Atheists? Where was it 18/12/6 months ago?

Or is it that, this is convenient timing? Coincidence - no, I don't believe in coincidences that fit this perfectly.

As for point two, are you serious? Bangladesh does NOT have a bleak economically or in terms of living standards - even with all the turmoil and mismanagement/incompetence/corruption of the present govt, we moved up a place in the UN indexes. Of course we should have moved up 10, but in many sectors we are far head of Pakista and even India.

So, can we stop with the this country is falling apart narrative. Every year since independence this has been the mantra, yet this country keeps moving forward, be it with BNP or AL in power - but forward!




As for the holocaust survivors screaming for hangings - they didn't have to, the entire world decided they needed immediate justice and military justice and guess what the accused were hanged. Nuremberg trials aren't exactly a great big secret.

These are the Nazis that were sentenced to death and hung at Nuremberg

Hans Frank — Guilty, sentenced to death by hanging
Wilhelm Frick — Guilty, sentenced to death by hanging
Hermann Göring — Guilty, sentenced to death, committed suicide before execution.
Alfred Jodl — Guilty, sentenced to death by hanging, Henri Donnedieu de Vabres called the verdict a mistake in 1945. In 1953, the denazification courts reversed the decision and found Jodl not guilty. His property, confiscated in 1946, was returned to his widow.
Ernst Kaltenbrunner — Guilty, sentenced to death by hanging
Wilhelm Keitel — Guilty, sentenced to death by hanging
Joachim von Ribbentrop — Guilty, sentenced to death by hanging
Alfred Rosenberg — Guilty, sentenced to death by hanging
Fritz Sauckel — Guilty, sentenced to death by hanging
Arthur Seyss-Inquart - Guilty, sentenced to death by hanging
Julius Streicher — Guilty, sentenced to death by hanging

I'm glad you mentioned Eichmann - the Israelis captured him from Argentina 15 years after the end of WWII, kidnapped him, tried him and guess what, hanged him!

Right after Israel was created and the Nuremberg trials ended, Israeli govt used Mossad to actively track down Nazis. To this day - Israel still pursues Nazis

http://www.eju.org/news/europe/israe...emaining-nazis - this is from 2011

Yet when we wanted to do the same, we had people vetoing our bid to join the UN(China) and then the enemy within(both major parties) compromising with them.

Try mentioning the holocaust so flippantly anywhere even today - and see how long you keep your job, or in places stay out of jail. 60+ years and Israel still uses the Holocaust as a valid reason to strike down any criticism of it as Anti-Semitism.

Powerful jewish lobbies such as the ADL search the world over for any hint of Holocaust denial or anti-jewish sentiment. Israel used the atrocities of the Holocaust as rationale for an actual nation state and that continues to be the very reason for its existence today.

Yet here you are making it sound like, we are being 'too precious', and need to let 'bygones be bygones' or get into a pissing contest about which atrocity was worse. Yes, we should simply get over it because it was 1.5mil killed and not 3 million and 100,000 women and underage girls gang raped and not 200,000.

40+ years people waited patiently, and nothing was done, I suppose people should never speak up for anything lest it cause a hassle. I'm sure you felt the same way when Ershad was being brought down - after all, that caused a lot of conflict and slowed down economic growth too. He built lots of roads after all.

*I said I wouldn't make this thread about Shahbagh but I couldn't help but respond - the last thread was ruined by a selected few, and most importantly these people are merely using Shahbagh as a cover, because as I keep repeating only 2 out of their 13 demands have anything to do with Atheists or Shahbagh.

[Gladiators]

Oh and for those STILL pretending - all this support and bigging them up, but the fact that they didn't carry out her wishes to the letter, means Begum Khaleda Zia is not happy.

Sunday, April 07, 2013
Khaleda not happy with Hefajat programmes
Staff Correspondent


BNP Chairperson Khaleda Zia last night expressed her displeasure with those leaders of the 18-party alliance involved in Hefajat-e Islam movement for not coming up with tougher programmes to realise the Islamists’ demands.
Leaders of the alliance at a meeting decided to enforce a two-day non-stop hartal from April 9 if the detained BNP leaders were not granted bail by today.
Chaired by Khaleda at her Gulshan office, the meeting decided to suspend the BNP-led alliance’s earlier announced April 10 rally in the capital aimed at ousting the government, Shawkat Hosain Nilu, chief of a component of the alliance National Peoples Party, told The Daily Star.
The BNP chief asked Islami Oikya Jote Chairman Abdul Latif Nejami and leaders of Khelafat Majlish and Nejame Islami Party why Hefajat-e Islam did not announce tougher programmes including two or three-day hartal from its rally at Motijheel in the capital yesterday.
She also asked them why they the Hefajat programme was not turned into a sit-in for several days, though its field level leaders demanded so, a top leader of the alliance told this correspondent.
Wishing anonymity, he said, “They [alliance leaders] had information that the grassroots level activists of Hefajat wanted continuing the Shalpa Chatter programme. But its ameer did not agree to it.”
Earlier, at a meeting of BNP standing committee, Khaleda came down heavily on its members for the same reason, said meeting sources.
http://www.thedailystar.net/beta2/ne...at-programmes/

Suppose she has every right to be worried, Hasina might appease them before she gets a chance, after all the Govt makes laws.

[Alien]

Originally Posted by Gladiators
There are over 300,000 Bangladeshi bloggers - and most have been blogging for 5-8 years. Where was this outcry against so called Atheists? Where was it 18/12/6 months ago?

What are you on about? the 300,000 do not have inflammatory blogs, the one that got killed + the 3 arrested and few others are the ones on spotlight.

I too have a blog about Oracle database, rest assured HI isn't protesting about that.

Atheism is not the issues, its the fact that those blogger (happen to be Atheist) and put up inflammatory posts. Regardless not condoning the public outcry in response.

As for point two, are you serious? Bangladesh does NOT have a bleak economically or in terms of living standards - even with all the turmoil and mismanagement/incompetence/corruption of the present govt, we moved up a place in the UN indexes. Of course we should have moved up 10, but in many sectors we are far head of Pakista and even India.

No comments....if you are happy with the status quo. But lot of us would like to see the country on par with the more developed ones somewhere near future & eradication of slums and poverty.

As for the holocaust survivors screaming for hangings - they didn't have to, the entire world decided they needed immediate justice and military justice and guess what the accused were hanged. Nuremberg trials aren't exactly a great big secret.

These are the Nazis that were sentenced to death and hung at Nuremberg

Hans Frank — Guilty, sentenced to death by hanging
Wilhelm Frick — Guilty, sentenced to death by hanging
Hermann Göring — Guilty, sentenced to death, committed suicide before execution.
Alfred Jodl — Guilty, sentenced to death by hanging, Henri Donnedieu de Vabres called the verdict a mistake in 1945. In 1953, the denazification courts reversed the decision and found Jodl not guilty. His property, confiscated in 1946, was returned to his widow.
Ernst Kaltenbrunner — Guilty, sentenced to death by hanging
Wilhelm Keitel — Guilty, sentenced to death by hanging
Joachim von Ribbentrop — Guilty, sentenced to death by hanging
Alfred Rosenberg — Guilty, sentenced to death by hanging
Fritz Sauckel — Guilty, sentenced to death by hanging
Arthur Seyss-Inquart - Guilty, sentenced to death by hanging
Julius Streicher — Guilty, sentenced to death by hanging

I'm glad you mentioned Eichmann - the Israelis captured him from Argentina 15 years after the end of WWII, kidnapped him, tried him and guess what, hanged him!

Yes my point isn't that justice wasnt served during holocaust. In between end of WW2, and Eichmann getting captured (a good 15 years) how many holocaust survivors occupied a square and asked for his hanging?

How many did so for Pol-Pot? Mind you that guy didnt get hanged for his crimes. Large number of war criminals didn't get what they deserved.

Maybe Eichmann was a bad example as he was hiding middle of nowhere where our ones were living right in the middle of Dhaka.

[Sohel]

The atheism of certain bloggers was yanked into the limelight for the political purpose of equating Shahbagh with atheism and subsequently, Islamism with Islam. In retrospect, they have not only succeeded in garnering support amongst the highly organized Islamist crowd on the Islamist "left" (JI/Shibir) and the Islamist "right" (Kowmi Madrassa), but also others who do not share their deviant and subversive views on Islam, deviant with regards to the traditional Sunni Madhabs.

The issue of extrapolating a unifying national narrative from seeking justice for Razakars doesn't mitigate national development. They are NOT mutually exclusive or an either-or proposition. That type of false proposition is dumb and only the dumber fall into its dumbness.

In fact, such a unifying narrative can accelerate national development once developed and utilized correctly. Now such unifying national narrative through justice may not be important to some, but it sure is to the overwhelming majority of the people in this country as evidenced by their vote.

There is no statute of limitation when it comes to such crimes even if they occurred 400 and not just the "prehistoric" 40 years ago as some like to whine about here. I want to see justice done for my family and those of my friends who have died, fought for, and survived the crimes against humanity and the Bangladeshi people.

I stated my reservations about Shahbagh in my blog HERE and none of my positions have changed. The situation we see ourselves facing now is not a political but a law and order issue which has everything to do with the current government's unwillingness, inability and despicable incompetence to nip this in the bud when they had the chance.

I am not in favor of censoring or banning any type of politics and have no issues with anyone gathering peacefully to have their voices heard, irrespective of whether or not I side with their opinions and demands. Why? Because I believe in the Spirit of '71 codified by the 4 core values of our Constitution as the direct reflection of the historic will of our VICTORIOUS people. But breaking the law under the guise of political demands while terrorizing the public and undermining the state simply cannot be tolerated by any self respecting government. Those people, regardless of party affiliation, are criminals and need to be brought under the purview of the law, including our anti-terrorism laws that define enemy combatants.

[Abu Ayyub]

Originally Posted by zman
Please don't confuse Moududi and Syed Kutb's version of militant Islam with real Islam. True followers of Islam would keep faith in Allah knowing that victory can only come from Him and they'd have to remain patient and refrain from transgressing no matter how bad things get.

Who gives them the right to destroy and vandalize public and private property, which is acquired through the sweat and blood of innocent, hard working people? This is strictly forbidden in Islam.

When Mr Sayeedi was sentenced to death, I would've been more impressed had he said something like...My dear followers, keep faith in Allah and and his Prophet (swas) in these troubled times and don't create havoc, or kill innocent people or destroy public property. You have no right to do so.

True followers of Islam would rather be patient and get persecuted than resort to these innovated methods of hartals and strikes that can only cause mayhem and destruction, or raise their swords against their rulers for that matter. Does Ma'mun or Mu'tasim ring a bell? What did the great scholars of their times do during the great fitnah? When Ma'mun and Mu'tasim went as far as to force their own misguided beliefs on their people? They had all the support of their followers and could've easily called strikes and hartals or even waged war against the rulers if they wanted to. Did they ever do that? Did they raise the sword against their rulers? No, they would not follow innovation and resort to this kind of violence. They knew full well it's forbidden to fight against Muslim rulers no matter how corrupted they may be and how deficient they may be in their faith, as long as they claim to be believers.

Thanks for this post, good arguments you have brought forth but these cannot be applied in today's time and context. The Prophet (s) advised us to obey our Muslim rulers even if they kill many people, however if there is clear disbelief seen from the ruler then the obedience is no longer there. These tyrannical rulers of the past were not declared as disbelievers but deviants. However there is one key aspect of Islamic history where the question of whether such a ruler is a Muslim or not arose during the 13th/14th century of the Mongols (Tartars) who kept on invading Syria and killing Muslims. The difference that was noticed from them was that they ruled with different laws, they derived most of their laws from Genghis Khan and mixed it with other religions. From this the scholars of that time (which includes the great jurist Ibn Taymiyyah) had to give a fatwa declaring them as disbelievers because of the fact they did not rule by the Qur'an and Sunnah, not only that declared a full out jihad against them. Why didn't the scholars of that time say 'be patient and obey'? Today we have governments who have taken the law into their own hands created from their own ideas and desires and then forced upon the people, majority of the laws contradicting the shariah. So the peaceful manner in which Hifazat-e-Islam is trying to put forth its demands to the government is nothing compared to what took place in the past, which should be appreciated.

[Alien]

Many atheists like Dawkins and wannabes have an annoying tendency to take p*ss out of others religions.

General etiquette is to follow your own while being respectful of others belief. Many of these Atheists think they are above all that.

Likewise Muslims today are a rather sensitive lot.

Overtly critical atheists and ultra-sensitive Muslims are a recipe for disaster when put together.