Invasion of "Banglish" in BC forum

[Sohel]

Originally Posted by Spitfire_x86
After lots of efforts from Nasif and Arnab, use of Banglish was rapidly decreasing and use of real Bangla was increasing. But the forum staff has been quiet for some time about use of Bangla, and BC forum is being invaded by Banglish again. Our current top poster Sohel_NR often uses Bangla in his posts, but never real Bangla. I find it hard to believe that he couldn't use real Bangla if he wanted to. Many of the new posters are doing the same.

I personally request Sohel_NR to use real Bangla instead of Banglish in your posts. I could use PM to reach you, but this is a problem that should be discussed in public I think. Also request to the mods to resume activity to encourage use of real Bangla.

Please let this thread stay in "Bangladesh Cricket" category, even though technically it doesn't belong here. I posted it here to get more attention.

Spitfire_x86,

Singling me out is not appreciated, then again, I don't think you were looking for my appreciation when you unnecessarily brought me up not once, but twice. MODs, I fail to see this as anything but uddeshshomulok. Whatever that uddeshsho maybe, this type of thought-policing is not welcome to this member. IMHO, we are better off exercising our individual freedoms as forum members, within existing forum rules, and without this type of singling out.

Ami ekhane kono forum-rules bhongo kaurechhi bole mone hoyna. Amra paurom shoubhaggokrome ekti Orwellian jaugote baushobash korina. Ami bujhte parchhina ekhane amar namta nebar ki proyojonta chhilo, authoba ebhabe amar pechhone lagbar ki karon thakte pare.

Nijer chaurkay tel deyatai bodhoy uttom. Nijer forum-o khola jay.

Peace, Sohel

[layperson]

Originally Posted by Spitfire_x86
To layperson,

It's understandable if someone who can't write Bangla writes a few lines of Banglish (they don't write much Bangla anyway), or if someone uses it sometimes for a quick one liner. But if this becomes the standard method using Bangla, then we do have a problem.

I have to disagree once again. I for one do not fall in the category of "cant write bangla" however I prefer to write Banglish over pure bangla simply because writing pure bangla will take a lot more effort from my part and reading it is also a bit of an eyestrain for me. Here, using banglish instead of bangla becomes the norm for people like me when I do want to express my thoughts in bangla. I find it more convenient and why take so much trouble to write bangla alphabets when there is an easier alternative in Banglish.This is after all a forum only and not a place to practice language I would assume. But I can understand your frustrations and the only mature way to deal with it would be to ignore those posts instead of trying to change their way of writing. Its like people who find it hard to read bangla requesting other users to not write in bangla and use banglish as an alternative. I hope you see what I am trying to get at.

[Miraz]

আমার মনে হয় কিছু মেম্বার স্পিটফায়ার এর পোস্টের উদ্দেশ্য বুঝতে ব্যর্থ হয়েছেন।

বাংলাক্রিকেটে বাংলা ফন্ট এ বাংলা প্রচলনের একটা ইতিহাস রয়েছে এবং মাতৃভাষা বাংলাকে ইন্টারনেট ফোরামে সঠিকভাবে লিখতে পারার তাগিদ থেকে অর্ণব ও নাসিফ ভাইয়ের অনেক পরিশ্রমের ফসল এটি।

বাংলিশ কখনোই বাংলার বিকল্প হতে পারেনা, আমার কাছে এটি ভাষার এক ধরনের বিকৃতি যেখানে শুদ্ধভাবে লেখার সুযোগ রয়েছে। কিন্তু তরুণ প্রজন্মের কেউ যদি বিদেশে জন্ম হবার কারণে বা দীর্ঘদিন বিদেশে থাকার কারণে বাংলা পড়তে না পারেন সেক্ষত্রে ব্যাপারটা আলাদা। লেখার ক্ষেত্রে কোন সমস্যা থাকা উচিত না কেননা অভ্র ফোনেটিক এ লিখলে বাংলিশটাই বাংলা হিসাবে আসে।

কিন্তু যারা বাংলা পড়তে পারেন তাদের বাংলিশ এ লেখা এক ধরনের অলসতা ও ভাষার প্রতি এক প্রকারের অসম্মান। এটি আমার ব্যক্তিগত মতামত ।

আর সাধারনভাবে ফোরাম ল্যাংগুয়েজ হিসাবে ইংরেজী প্রচলিত, তাই যারা বাংলা পড়তে পারেন না তারা তাদের পোস্টগুলি ইংরেজীতে করলেই বাংলিশ এর ব্যবহার অনেক কমে যাবে।

আর আরেকটি কথা বলতে চাই, বাংলাক্রিকেট আর দশটা ইন্টারনেট ফোরাম এর মত কোন চ্যাট ফোরাম নয় যেখানে মনের ভাব প্রকাশের জন্য যে কোন ধরণের ভাষা ব্যবহার করা যায়। বাংলাক্রিকেট এর কিছু স্বকীয়তার জন্য গর্ববোধ করে তার মধ্যে একটি হল ভাষার যথাযথ ব্যবহার এবং আরেকটি হল এর পরিচ্ছন্নতা। তাই অন্যান্য ফোরামের সাথে বাংলাক্রিকেটকে তুলনা করাটা ঠিক হবে না এবং সেখানে করা যায় এমন সব কিছুই বাংলাক্রিকেট স্বাগত: জানায়না।

[Eshen]

Originally Posted by layperson
I for one do not understand the hue and cry against "banglish". I would much rather read a post in banglish than in pure bangla alphabet. This is a personal preference and when you have people opening threads for this with admins and mods supporting the idea then it seems as though you are forcing people to stop writing the way they are comfortable. Do not take this post out of context and think I am bitching about bangla. Its just personal preference as some people actually do find it harder to read the bangla alphabets. If you are not one of them then you wont understand. So its better to live and let live. If people find bangla easier then write in pure bangla fonts and if there are some who find writing and reading banglish easier than pure bangla then they should go for that. I never understand the fuss !!!

Totally agree with you.

[goru]

And I think some people are also failing to understand some of the counter-points being made by some of the members.

It is quite clear that there are many members on here who can't read Bangla script as easily as they can read Banglish. And some people just cannot read Bangla script, even if they understand spoken Bangla. If I'm going to express my thoughts in Bangla, I might as well make sure most members can read it... by using Banglish (but my first preference is to just write everything in English on BC).

এটা বাংলা ভাষার সম্মানের প্রশ্ন নয়৷ It is a question of whether you want to maximize your target audience or not.

[Miraz]

Originally Posted by goru
এটা বাংলা ভাষার সম্মানের প্রশ্ন নয়৷ It is a question of whether you want to maximize your target audience or not.

If maximizing the audience is the prime target, the member is always welcome to write in English.

In that case even the foreign members will understand the post.

[goru]

Originally Posted by Miraz
If maximizing the audience is the prime target, the member is always welcome to write in English.

In that case even the foreign members will understand the post.

It may not be possible to translate certain expressions in English and maintain the meaning.

"Chilla kaita lobon lagae dimu" in English will seem... silly.

[Miraz]

Originally Posted by goru
It may not be possible to translate certain expressions in English and maintain the meaning.

"Chilla kaita lobon lagae dimu" in English will seem... silly.

These are rare exceptions, you can defnitely argue with these, but please don't tell me people are using "banglish" for these reasons.


"omok ekta balod kimba tomok ekta gadha" is just one of the most common forms of "banglish" used in BC.

[layperson]

Originally Posted by Miraz
If maximizing the audience is the prime target, the member is always welcome to write in English.

In that case even the foreign members will understand the post.

There are stuff that can be expressed only in Bangla which is why people use Banglish sometimes. The essence of the post might get lost when you write the same thoughts in english.

However I do not write banglish to reach a greater audience and it is done simply because I find it more convenient nothing more nothing less. This has nothing to do with respecting Bangla language or showing disrespect to the language because I know for sure that it is not the intention of the people who write banglish. From my comprehension of your bangla post ( or at least from the last paragraph), it seems like Miraz bhai too is echoing the sentiment, "it is either my way or the highway " which is disappointing and absurd coming from someone like you who I respect a lot.
Mone hochche Bangla cricket er unwritten rule apnar mathay o grill in kora hoye geche.

I call this "til k tal banano". We are making a non issue seeem like a huge issue. Once again I would say live and let live and let us not impose our personal preferences on others because then it would be fair call for me to request the people writing in Bangla fonts to stop doing it and write in Banglish or English as I find it very diffcult to read their posts.

[Miraz]

Originally Posted by layperson
From my comprehension of your bangla post ( or at least from the last paragraph), it seems like Miraz bhai too is echoing the sentiment, "it is either my way or the highway " which is disappointing and absurd coming from someone like you who I respect a lot.
Mone hochche Bangla cricket er unwritten rule apnar mathay o grill in kora hoye geche.

Shahriyar, my last paragraph was not only about using "banglish", so drawing inference from the last paragraph will not do justice to my post.

Someone couple of posts before mentioned

"Do you guys always use proper spelling of every word when you are chatting with your friends in MSN/Y!/AOL/PAL?" i don't think so. so why sould be a difference in here?

I think you get my point now.

[goru]

Let's go over the three main forms of writing on BC and who CANNOT read them:

Case 1: English written in English
Who can't read this:
- Someone who doesn't read/understand English. I doubt there is even one person signed up on this forum who falls in this criteria.

Case 2: Bangla written in English (Banglish)
Who can't read this:
- Someone who doesn't understand Bangla as spoken.
- Someone who can't read English. Again, I doubt there is even one person signed up on this forum who falls in this criteria.

Case 3: Bangla written in Bangla
Who can't read this:
- Someone who doesn't understand Bangla as spoken.
- Someone who can't read Bangla.
- Someone who does not have the setup for reading Bangla in their browsers.
- Someone who is unable to setup Bangla in their browsers (system restrictions), even if they are willing to.

[Megh]

Goru bhai apnar kotha boroi shundorjo lagche. apni id ta goru nileo bhalo kotha bolche. jobbor lagche. jakkas. Sorry that i used banglish here.

[Spitfire_x86]

Originally Posted by Sohel NR
Spitfire_x86,

Singling me out is not appreciated, then again, I don't think you were looking for my appreciation when you unnecessarily brought me up not once, but twice. MODs, I fail to see this as anything but uddeshshomulok. Whatever that uddeshsho maybe, this type of thought-policing is not welcome to this member. IMHO, we are better off exercising our individual freedoms as forum members, within existing forum rules, and without this type of singling out.

Ami ekhane kono forum-rules bhongo kaurechhi bole mone hoyna. Amra paurom shoubhaggokrome ekti Orwellian jaugote baushobash korina. Ami bujhte parchhina ekhane amar namta nebar ki proyojonta chhilo, authoba ebhabe amar pechhone lagbar ki karon thakte pare.

Nijer chaurkay tel deyatai bodhoy uttom. Nijer forum-o khola jay.

Peace, Sohel

Please accept my apologies if I have offended you. Probably I should have PM'ed you first, and then brought up the topic in public. I singled you out only because you are one of the best contributors of this forum, and without doubt the most active at this moment. In my personal opinion, your well written posts could be even better with use of Bangla fonts.

Just for example, it took around 3-5 seconds for me to understand "shoubhaggokrome", but if it was written as সৌভ্যাগ্যক্রমে I could understand it instantly. And there are many members like me who find reading proper Bangla far easier, especially in case of long posts (or sentences).

BTW, you don't have to quote forum rules. I'm well aware that no one is required to use proper Bangla, and not asking for any new rules to be made for enforcing what I think is right.

[Megh]

totally worthless fighting over here guys. do whatever you want. write how you do feel comfortable. if management thinks i am doing any wrong stuff and doing something what can ruin the forum reputation then let me be banned.

Bhai doya koira amare bolen eta koi jon maina nibo je ami aikhane ashlam cricket niya kotha koite ar eita r jonno amare unicode, avro keyboard install korte hoite hoibo. bhai ami korte pari kintu bhai ami forum e ashbo, moja korbo, enjoy korbo ar mon khule post korbo. apnara jodi hoi bangla or english diye post korte hobe emon kono rule kore den. tahole user ra sign up korar shomoy dekhe decision nibe member hobe ki hobe na. hajar hajar members der majhe akhon apni koi jon ke thik korte parben eta bheve dekhen? koto jon kei ba bhujaite parben? jai hok bohal tobiyote thaken sobai ei kamona kori.

[Miraz]

Originally Posted by Megh
totally worthless fighting over here guys. do whatever you want. write how you do feel comfortable. if management thinks i am doing any wrong stuff and doing something what can ruin the forum reputation then let me be banned.

Bhai doya koira amare bolen eta koi jon maina nibo je ami aikhane ashlam cricket niya kotha koite ar eita r jonno amare unicode, avro keyboard install korte hoite hoibo. bhai ami korte pari kintu bhai ami forum e ashbo, moja korbo, enjoy korbo ar mon khule post korbo. apnara jodi hoi bangla or english diye post korte hobe emon kono rule kore den. tahole user ra sign up korar shomoy dekhe decision nibe member hobe ki hobe na. hajar hajar members der majhe akhon apni koi jon ke thik korte parben eta bheve dekhen? koto jon kei ba bhujaite parben? jai hok bohal tobiyote thaken sobai ei kamona kori.

Megh,
We are trying to encourage members to use proper "Bangla", but defnitely "banglish" is accepted here.

However, use of chat language is not welcome here.

[goru]

I do think Spitty has a valid point in saying that it is easier for those of us who can read Bangla script to read Bangla in it rather than in Banglish. However, I don't think we should deprive those who can't read Bangla script (but can understand it as spoken) of our Bangla posts.

[ammark]

I'm glad that none of us here are promoting Banglish of the form:

"like, ami pa dhuchhilam, ar idiot meyeta wouldnt stop staring at me! "

[Nasif]

Remember that typing in proper Bangla ensures that people will be able to google your text. I don't think anyone will search in google for "rajniti" rather রাজনীতি. Banglish makes your post get "lost in time", it is particularly unfortunate if that post was very informative.

One other problem I have with banglish is that it doesn't have any standard transliteration or spelling scheme. Everyone uses their own way. Someone can type প্রিয় as priyo or prio; রাজনীতি can be typed like rajniti or rajneeti or rajneety or raajniti or razniti or raazneeti or rujniti or rujnity or....never ending list. It makes my read very unpleasant.

Forum rules don't restrict anyone from posting in Banglish. Only regulation that we have is that post must be either in English or Bangla; as thats the two languages understood by the majority of us here; as well as the moderators. We cannot force anyone not to use banglish.

When we implemented Bangla in this forum (this is one of the first site, rather the first site, on the net to implement direct Bangla usage); it was for making the forum more useful, resourceful as well as to make our national language as good a medium as English on BanglaCricket. It is a matter of pride as well.

In the end it is all about how useful and informative you want to make your post. Remember, every post is a piece of history. Many years from now, someone will read this from a google search result. Are you sure your post can be found?

[al Furqaan]

i have to echo tigerpower and rubu here:

i think a minimal level of banglish should be allowed as many members (the 2nd generation immigrants) do not know how to read or write bangla even though they may speak/understand it well enough.

also i find that "algebra english" annoying to the nth degree. there is no excuse for that. he who writes "waz up M4n?" can easily write it properly. but those people like me, have to rely on banglish to express certain phrases.

[goru]

I personally wouldn't attach too much historic value to 99% of the posts on BC... however, while we are on the topic of pride, why aren't the articles (match bulletins, etc) on BC's main page written in both English and Bangla?

[Miraz]

Originally Posted by goru
I personally wouldn't attach too much historic value to 99% of the posts on BC... however, while we are on the topic of pride, why aren't the articles (match bulletins, etc) on BC's main page written in both English and Bangla?

We use both Bangla and English for articles while match bulletins are written only in English.

You are digressing here, it's "banglish" vs "Bangla", not English vs Bangla or vice versa.

[goru]

Originally Posted by Miraz
You are digressing here, it's "banglish" vs "Bangla", not English vs Bangla or vice versa.

It was triggered by Nasif saying:

...as well as to make our national language as good a medium as English on BanglaCricket. It is a matter of pride as well.

If that's what you really believe in, then main page bulletins should have Bangla translations posted as well.

[Arnab]

Originally Posted by goru
It was triggered by Nasif saying:



If that's what you really believe in, then main page bulletins should have Bangla translations posted as well.

We believe in it, but we don't have full time English-to-Bengali translators. It's more of a question of manpower than belief. If we had a dedicated few to provide Bengali translations of our match bulletins, we would provide those in a heartbeat.

[goru]

Originally Posted by Arnab
We believe in it, but we don't have full time English-to-Bengali translators. It's more of a question of manpower than belief. If we had a dedicated few to provide Bengali translations of our match bulletins, we would provide those in a heartbeat.

Well, I'd love to do it myself, if permitted... (i.e. not write match bulletins, but translations of them). I could post them in the forum thread about the bulletin if it needs to be preapproved?

[Arnab]

Originally Posted by goru
Well, I'd love to do it myself, if permitted... (i.e. not write match bulletins, but translations of them). I could post them in the forum thread about the bulletin if it needs to be preapproved?

It would be great. If you are serious, we can make you a staff writer and hook you up with Miraz.