Israeli Children Brainwash, lesson for hatred - Page 2

Orpheus · #26 July 20, 2006, 03:08 PM

CB i was talking about pictures of the little boy, not the missile picture. Missile pic is easily believable.

Nasif bhai, thanks for the links. I still have doubts (though the observer story is true) - just not the pictures. Those pictures came from one single blog whose friend is a non existent editor of a newspaper.

anyways, it's upto individuals to judge for themselves and believe what they want (for example, you thought pic 1 was the least violent whereas I thought 3rd with the girl was a ok pic to show the general public).

It's a fact that children are dying but I still think this picture is either very old or fake and they shouldn't be used to stir up emotions...

Carte Blanche · #27 July 20, 2006, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allrounder
If people stopped attacking Israelis then things would be just fine. All these militants keeps bombing and shooting into Israel now and then and so this fighting never stops.

That sounds just like Bush.

If it was that simple, don't you think the issues would have been solved decades ago? Almost everyone with an ounce of rationale would agree that Israel has always been overstepping its right to defend itself by a long margin. They are untouchable because of their US backing (8 out of the 9 last vetoes on Israel related issues have been by the US alone). Injustice and terrorism on their part has been rampant for many decades. I don't condone the Muslim/Arab world's terrorism against Israel or their refusal to accept Israel's right to exist, but it's clear that they will only stop on a quid-pro-quo basis. In other words, it's much more complicated than merely ceasing to send suicide bombers or pelting rocks at the Israeli soldiers. Let's not even go to the Zionism episode.

On a different note, I'm sure most of you already have or previously owned a Bangladeshi Passport? Did you notice the page where it says this Passport is valid everywhere in the world except for Israel? What did we ever do to Israel? What do they have against us? Can anyone fill me in?

Carte Blanche · #28 July 20, 2006, 03:30 PM

Oh never mind. Found this on wiki:

Quote:

Bangladesh does not recognize Israel as a country and bars its citizens from going to Israel. However, Bangladeshis with dual nationality may enter Israel as a citizen of the third country with the third country passport; this being possible if the third country has amiable relations with Israel, an example of such a country is the United States.

The problem's at our end I see

allrounder · #29 July 20, 2006, 03:32 PM

Well since suicide bombers and rockets will continue flying into Israel and as long Israel is not going to be welcomed in the mid east region, Israel will keep showing who is the boss in the middle east with its power. Since no one expects that agression will stop from the muslim communities, Israel's aggression would not stop either.

**Nasif** · #30 July 20, 2006, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carte Blanche
On a different note, I'm sure most of you already have or previously owned a Bangladeshi Passport? Did you notice the page where it says this Passport is valid everywhere in the world except for Israel? What did we ever do to Israel? What do they have against us? Can anyone fill me in?

We haven't done anything to Israel. We just don't recognize Israel as a state and do not have any diplomatic relations with them. I believe this came along with Independence (Pakistan didn't recognize Israel before).

There used to be more countries on the passport before; "Taiwan, South Africa and Israel". Now its only Israel. I have read a report few months back that BD foreign ministry is initiating talks to open diplomatic relations with Israel.

bharat · #31 July 20, 2006, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by akabir77
Israel was planning this attack for 5 years. according to NBC analyst..

On another note... India is always taking our/ framers/cows/fishermen/solders.. Should we attack them too and get the USA backup?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatebreed
India already thinks they should adopt the Israeli approach (i.e. military aggression) to deal with us. Only regional bullies like them have right to attack and have US backing, not a weak and poor nation like ours.

DID WE EVER DO THAT ? A FEW MEEK VOICES HERE AND THERE DO NOT DEFINE A COUNTRIES POLICY .I AM SURE THE MEMEBERS IN THIS BOARD KNOW BETTER THAN THAT.

I urge the members not to comapare India with Isreal .Yes , we have had our own skirmishes ,infact ask an Indian about the border problems he/she will have a completely different story .(for eg : 15 BSF soldiers killed and paraded like animals in the early 2000's)

Not once has India adopted an aggresive approch towards Bangladesh ..leave alone an Isreali approch.

A complete wrong anology to say the least

Sorry · #32 July 20, 2006, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carte Blanche
..On a different note, I'm sure most of you already have or previously owned a Bangladeshi Passport? Did you notice the page where it says this Passport is valid everywhere in the world except for Israel? What did we ever do to Israel? What do they have against us? Can anyone fill me in?

Don’t get mixed up- all immigration rules are discriminatory by its origin and nature, e.g. requirements for visas, American visa lottery, etc. Different rules apply for different nationals. There is nothing wrong with the stamp that restricts travelling in Israel. If anything to blame is GOD for creating such diverge human being or civilization. Don’t get me wrong.

Nice post CB, btw.

Xavier · #33 July 20, 2006, 06:24 PM

Hello unknown mates! Here is a site to help Lebanon:
http://fromisraeltolebanon.info/

Please go to the petition and sign it... free-minded people all over the world are sick of politicians making wars for their greedy interests, let them hear our voice!

Carte Blanche · #34 July 20, 2006, 07:05 PM

Good post Xavier. I signed it earlier today but forgot to post it here.

For some reason it doesn't complete my signature on the petition though.

Btw, congrats on your football triumph

Rubu · #35 July 20, 2006, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carte Blanche
Oh never mind. Found this on wiki:

The problem's at our end I see

What do you call a problem carte? Am I getting you wrong here? I think we should be proud of the fact that we do not have a diplomatic relation with israel.

truely, occupying someone else's land by force can make you a bandit at best, not a government.

Carte Blanche · #36 July 20, 2006, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rubu
What do you call a problem carte? Am I getting you wrong here? I think we should be proud of the fact that we do not have a diplomatic relation with israel.

truely, occupying someone else's land by force can make you a bandit at best, not a government.

Isn't that how nations were born throughout the history?

Look I don't condone Israel's forceful occupation of Palestine. I'm also realistic enough to understand that after ~60 years, Israel has a right to stay. She is here to stay, and she will. I also acknowledge that according to Geneva Convention, it is illegal to acquire/annex territory by means of war. But that was past and it is not going to change the fact that Israel WILL stay on the map, no matter what Ahmedinejad says. I simply fail to see why ordinary citizens like us have to suffer because of this. It's fine if they don't want to keep a warm relationship, but not recognizing the state at all after so many years is ridiculous. I'll have to wait to gain a citizenship of a 2nd nation now if I want to visit Israel someday (which I do).

I feel this nonrecognition thing is a way of showing a "muslim solidarity", which I personally think is an oxymoron. Examples abound.

Rubu · #37 July 20, 2006, 07:28 PM

Carte, I do understand the fact that israel would stay, and have to say, it should stay. otherwise, where would all those people go? right?

wait, isn't that a completely different question we are asking? asking for home for a homeless is a completely different matter than throwing someone from his home so a homeless can stay. have they ever begged before taking the palestine land?

ok, that was 60 years ago, and we are in 2006 now. so, lets focus on the current issue. if israel gave palenstine a seperate state and leave them alone would anyone give a sh*t about them? no. or may be yes, they will still curse them, but thats about it. all it needs in middle east for peace is, israel not wanting more than what it has already shallowed. but opening brushfire on the sound of bike's tire burst is not the way of peace, and everyone has a limit they can accept. I do not see any reason to blame any of those who wants to have a clear border where israel is not allowed to enter. to be truthful, that is the only requirement for 99% of the people there.

btw, about the comment on israel to stay: I cann't give you the source or anything, but I heard that there is a curse of a prophet on them that they will never have a land of their own.

side note: when I first got my pasport it said: this passport is valid for all the countries of the world except for israel and south africa. latter when I renewed it, they took off south africa because nelson mendrela has changed the country by then. it is not muslim solidarity, its a way of a protest from weak.

akabir77 · #38 July 20, 2006, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bharat
Originally Posted by akabir77
Israel was planning this attack for 5 years. according to NBC analyst..

On another note... India is always taking our/ framers/cows/fishermen/solders.. Should we attack them too and get the USA backup?

DID WE EVER DO THAT ? A FEW MEEK VOICES HERE AND THERE DO NOT DEFINE A COUNTRIES POLICY .I AM SURE THE MEMEBERS IN THIS BOARD KNOW BETTER THAN THAT.

I urge the members not to comapare India with Isreal .Yes , we have had our own skirmishes ,infact ask an Indian about the border problems he/she will have a completely different story .(for eg : 15 BSF soldiers killed and paraded like animals in the early 2000's)

Not once has India adopted an aggresive approch towards Bangladesh ..leave alone an Isreali approch.

Dear bro

check your stats you can give only one example like that which also happened inside bangladesh. May i Ask what were those 15 soles doing inside bd boarder? And against that I can tell you if you read bd paper 15 days in a row, you will see some body was shot dead by indian board security or got snatched by them or etc. Its like evry day thing for bangladeshi...that indian Boarder security will get some bd people...
So don't cry foul after just one insident...
Not one aggresive approch??? when India don't release water from Padma DAM during summer when people r dying for water and farmers too and release all water to flood during rainy season WHAT DO YOU CALL THIS ACT OF KINDNESS... that's just one example I and others can give thousands like that...

Carte Blanche · #39 July 20, 2006, 07:52 PM

Once again, I do not disagree that Israel is greater of the devils here. My point is that this does not need to result in our Govt. disallowing its citizens to visit Israel. FFS Americans are allowed to visit Iran!

Also, if this was all about protest from the weak, how come the Govt. suggested they would recognize Israel if they received trade concessions from the US? I know money talks, and so our protest is up for sale? I partly agree with you on this, though I still think it's more of a muslim solidarity. I don't see our Govt. not recognizing any of the African nations where the Govts have blood stains in their hands.

SMHasan · #40 July 20, 2006, 08:35 PM

This mass killing have been going for a long time but the international community was silent about this. Who did what to prevent this sort of war where people are being killed like fish. Unbelievable. Everyday some sort of violence is going on in the middle east. But no one cares. We all know that who is directing behind the scene.
দানবের হূঙ্কারে যে দানবেরই জয় হচ্ছে, এর কি কোনো শেষ নেই?

Hatebreed · #41 July 20, 2006, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bharat
Originally Posted by akabir77
DID WE EVER DO THAT ? A FEW MEEK VOICES HERE AND THERE DO NOT DEFINE A COUNTRIES POLICY .I AM SURE THE MEMEBERS IN THIS BOARD KNOW BETTER THAN THAT.

It depends on who exactly is "we". It's obviously impossible for everyone in India to think the same way, but I don't have a hint of doubt there is clearly anti-Bangladeshi sentiment throughout the general population and of course the media. At least some of these people do represent India, that's not saying they all hate Bangladesh. I have already posted several articles (written by Indian journalists and professors) who literally demanded full-strength Israel-esque invasion of Bangladeshi to wipe out our "terrorist" problems. I will not argue on this again, this is debate has been done to death.

bharat · #42 July 20, 2006, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatebreed
It depends on who exactly is "we". It's obviously impossible for everyone in India to think the same way, but I don't have a hint of doubt there is clearly anti-Bangladeshi sentiment throughout the general population and of course the media. At least some of these people do represent India, that's not saying they all hate Bangladesh. I have already posted several articles (written by Indian journalists and professors) who literally demanded full-strength Israel-esque invasion of Bangladeshi to wipe out our "terrorist" problems. I will not argue on this again, this is debate has been done to death.

As a last word , there was a suggestion in here that BD should attack India with the help of US ..does this add up to anything except pure rhetoric ?

In the same way , there might be a section of people in India who may be anti -BD (but I am pretty sure that it is a minority ..trust me ) but it does not add to anything as long as the Country as a whole does not take an agressive posture and hurts the other.

Border fights and skirmishes are bound to happen between neighbours , but seeing this in the same light as that of Isreal and the rest of the Muslim world is streatching it too far ...Think abt it ?

Sorry if I side tracked this discussion ...

Hatebreed · #43 July 20, 2006, 11:10 PM

Well I'm not gonna defend someone else's "rhetorical" question on a message board because it adds up to nothing.

While such sentiment coming from even a small section of India - known as the "biggest democracy" easily equates a vastly populated, larger and more economically, strategically and militarily positioned country. It doesn't end here, the problems go beyond border skirmishes. Billions of dollars of trade deficit, heavy taxation on import/export, severe environmental damage, politically and strategically linked violences and media propaganda to ruin whatever image we have left to the world. You can deny all you like, it's the truth.

Rabz · #44 July 21, 2006, 02:48 AM

mate we cud be very small and insignificant compared to India's sheer size, population, economy and militar power, but trust me, they DO NOT DARE to attack us. not even in thier wildest nightmare. few skirmishes and killing few border soldiers is just their way of bullyin on us. but remember, the bullies r the scared bunch.

plus if they had to attack us tomorrow, where will these million of us wud go ?? ha ha , india offcourse. we r surrounded by them in 3 sides... they will find themselves being infiltrated by us and that wud create much bigger problem than tryin to attack us !!

also fm an economic point of view, the last thing india needs right now is another military scale violence or staging a pointless war. that wud send them 10 years back.

ha ha...india.. ha ha ha...wotever...

Rabz · #45 July 21, 2006, 03:10 AM

just read what Michael Gorbachev has to say about the current crisis in the mid east. even though he sounded very diplomatic but i think he made some good point.

Here is it for u guys:

Force no answer to terrorism: Gorbachev

Friday Jul 21 16:27 AEST
Former Soviet president Mikhail Gorbachev has criticised the use of force, like that being waged in the Middle East, as a means of combating terrorism.
Calling for a halt to all hostilities in the troubled region, Mr Gorbachev said the world's problems would not be solved until the root causes of terrorism were addressed.
It comes as conflict between Israel and the Lebanese-based terrorist group Hizbollah enters its second week.
"The problem of terrorism and terrorist attacks cannot be ignored and they should be punished," Mr Gorbachev told journalists through an interpreter in Brisbane.

"But when such a situation occurs, counter measures should be proportional and should be justified."
Mr Gorbachev, who won the Nobel Peace prize in 1990 for his contribution to ending the Cold War, will lead the Earth Dialogues forum in Brisbane, which will be exploring issues including climate change, energy security and world peace over the next three days.
He said while terrorism was "unacceptable", understanding the root cause of such radical action was essential to world peace.
"We should bear in mind that the use of force is not the answer to the root causes of the problems that we are facing in the world today," Mr Gorbachev said.
"The problems of oppression and humiliation, the problems of backwardness and poverty and ... where we see a kind of conflict of civilisations.
"So long as millions of people are reduced to just surviving, so long as young people don't have a chance for education and work, you will see fertile ground for recruitment of terrorists."
He said the world, more than ever, needed to support "peaceful, just and sustainable solutions to the crises which threaten our future".
"The current violence in the Middle East is yet another demonstration of politics lagging behind the pace of global change," he said.
"If the leaders of the world's most powerful states lapse back and again see military power as a viable means of resolving disputes, then we should not be surprised if other states also consider it a legitimate course.
"We must stop the violence and reinstate effective multilateralism."
(source: http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=115931)

PoorFan · #46 July 21, 2006, 03:13 AM

Guys, stay on the track. Why bring India in this thread? why even talking 'India attack Bangladesh'?
I think we are going too far.

thebest · #47 July 21, 2006, 06:20 AM

Why we have to bring India in every damn issue? Regarding Israel, USA, UK, Jews consiparcy they have done what they should. Ask ourselves, did we do what we should? What our so called 'brother' doing? Why they can not presurre USA? Why not an oil embargo again againest those country supporting Israel?
I know not all jews support Israel's view. But even they are afraid of being touted as anti-israel; anti- semitic. We could help them as much as we can. Are we doing anything to help them so that they could change the opinion in Israel. While Jew lobby is recruting christians to do the work for them. We are bickering and complaining.
On a different note, I wonder why I am not allowed to go Israel? What harm I would do to my country by going to Israel? I actualy want to visit Bethelham and Al Aqsa mosque.
Just because so called 'islamic brotherhood' or because 'Israel involved in an unjust war' I can not go to Israel is unjustified. If the second one is right why don't ban going to the countries of 'coalitions of willing'. If the first one is right, lets check the fact first. All muslim countries including Palasitine but excluding Iraq supported Pakistan government during the autocracy of 1971. Just recently Kuwait is asking higher price to Bangladesh for oil. Saudies are patronising the so called 'islamic movement' in Bangladesh. So where is this brotherhood? Infact after Bhutan and India, Israel is the third country who recognized Bangladesh.

PoorFan · #48 July 21, 2006, 08:30 AM

Well said thebest.

Even Palestine government recognized Israel as a nation, What's the point not recognizing them from our side?

Rubu · #49 July 21, 2006, 10:31 AM

Once again can't agree. just because someone else did wrong or is doing wrong, that does not mean we have to do the same.

one question no one asked, will israel give visa to a muslim?

agree on the part that not every discussion has to lead to india.

and just beacause we are not doing much, that does not mean, we have to stop doing everything. this is for sure, you/we/i/our country have to do more than what is being done now. for the sake of humanity. forget about muslim brotherhood. we should feel bad about it the same way we should feel bad about a masacre in africa. and we have to do something within out means: how can we call ourselves human otherwise!

allrounder · #50 July 21, 2006, 10:57 AM

It is good that Israel is taking some aggressive steps in fighting against the elements that keeps attacking them on and on. Now when Israel drops the bombs everybody is calling for a cease fire. These groups need to think and realize that if they pull something like this again (kidnapping and shooting rockets into Israel), Israel will keep coming back harder on them and they better be ready for it.