Hajj and Eid al-Adha (Qurbani) 2018

[ToBeFair]

Originally Posted by al Furqaan
The prophets are revered because they were held to a higher standard. Noah was commanded to build an ark in the middle of the desert and face the ridicule of people for years. Some would consider that to be cruel.

Moses was commanded to return to face the most vile tyrant of human history, even though he was afraid Pharaoh would try to kill him. Some would consider that to be cruel.

Muhammad was commanded to watch his people patiently suffer taunts, and then torture (Bilal), economic boycott and even death (Nusaiba) and he wasn't yet allowed to defend the community. Some would consider that to be cruel.

Abraham and his son Ishmael were on a different spiritual plane. What you and I would perceive to be cruel would not be perceived as such by them. Ishmael himself urged his father to do as commanded and said he was of those who submit.

Perception of any feeling is subjective. The masochist doesn't feel pain when he's whipped. Neither does the devout feel hardship once they've reached a higher spiritual plane.

Because of that, to this day, more than a billion people commemorate Abraham and Ishmael thousands of years after their death whereas most people alive today will be forgotten as soon as we die and even the likes of Mother Theresea or Steve Jobs will be remembered in only a few passing comments.

Great post/observation

[tonmoy.dhaka]

Thank you Al-Furqaan, ToBeFair and Yankees for taking your valuable time to explain my question.

People may not agree with one another but can still be respectful. I thoroughly enjoyed the reply, and agree/understand a lot of it.

Eid mubarak to all.

[One World]

Eid Mubarak BC friends

Enjoy the dishes 😀

[aklemalp]

Eid Murabak to all my fellow members.

Peace and love

[Jadukor]

Originally Posted by aklemalp
Eid Murabak to all my fellow members.

Peace and love

Eid Mubarak to you as well

[simon]

Eid mubarak every1

[al Furqaan]

Originally Posted by tonmoy.dhaka
Thank you Al-Furqaan, ToBeFair and Yankees for taking your valuable time to explain my question.

Just giving a different perspective that you may not have heard.

Faith is a curious thing. If you have it, anything makes sense. If you don't, then nothing makes sense. There's no point debating matters of faith precisely because faith, at its core isn't about evidence or data. If it were, then the devout would merely need to crunch numbers on a calculator to reach higher planes of faith. If faith was based on data and empiricism it would be called science. Just like if you used real actors for an animated series it would then be called live action.

[BengaliPagol]

Muti-million dollars companies like Mcdonalds and such are slaughtering billions of slices of meat a day and people losing their minds over meat slaughter for one day for a religious festival. I just cannot contain my laughter. I almost fell from my chair from laughing too hard.

[BengaliPagol]

Originally Posted by al Furqaan
Just giving a different perspective that you may not have heard.

Faith is a curious thing. If you have it, anything makes sense. If you don't, then nothing makes sense. There's no point debating matters of faith precisely because faith, at its core isn't about evidence or data. If it were, then the devout would merely need to crunch numbers on a calculator to reach higher planes of faith. If faith was based on data and empiricism it would be called science. Just like if you used real actors for an animated series it would then be called live action.

it makes no sense to limit faith to such a definition. Yes it may be some elements of truth but this "faith" that you talk about is also exhibited on a day to day basis by everyone. For e.g. how do you really now your mother is truly your biological mother? You are taking a leap of faith there as well. When you go to the doctor, you are taking a leap of faith there in regards to if the doctor will truly do his best for your betterment.

But for some reason people try to portray belief in a religion as faith and define faith in such a way to promote the idea that people you have faith are irrational as a result.

[iDumb]

Originally Posted by BengaliPagol
Muti-million dollars companies like Mcdonalds and such are slaughtering billions of slices of meat a day and people losing their minds over meat slaughter for one day for a religious festival. I just cannot contain my laughter. I almost fell from my chair from laughing too hard.

You area laughing becuase you haven't read the posts. What does Beef consumption by others have anything to do with cow slaughtering by Muslims on EID? You as a Muslim supposed to be better. But we all know that is one wihsful thinking. No offense. Many ppl who follow religion are just very vile in nature when a bit of their comfort zone is questioned.

Why is it so hard for you accept that there are pain being inflicted on an animal when they go under the blade? What does Mcdonalds have to do with what YOU DO?

[ToBeFair]

Originally Posted by iDumb
You area laughing becuase you haven't read the posts. What does Beef consumption by others have anything to do with cow slaughtering by Muslims on EID? You as a Muslim supposed to be better. But we all know that is one wihsful thinking. No offense. Many ppl who follow religion are just very vile in nature when a bit of their comfort zone is questioned.

Why is it so hard for you accept that there are pain being inflicted on an animal when they go under the blade? What does Mcdonalds have to do with what YOU DO?

There are two different issues here:

1. Some Muslims, even though may ve practicing or semi practicing, often suffer from self-esteem issues. It is as if they are ashamed for being Muslim. They often feel the need to apologize for their own religious practices. Your post oozes that sort of insecurity. The views of an insecure apologist cannot be taken seriously.

OR

2. Even if we assume that you are not insecure but rather sincere in your call that Muslims should better themselves in the aspect of how they sacrifice their animals, then the mainstream Muslims (who more or less subscribe to the literal interpretation and following the Quran and the Sunnah- the prophetic tradition) believe that their method is the best, and there is no better method than the method of the Prophet.

God already said that in his Prophet we have the best example:

Indeed in the Messenger of Allah (Muhammad SAW) you have a good example to follow for him who hopes in (the Meeting with) Allah and the Last Day and remembers Allah much. [The Noble Quran 33:21]

Also God said:

O you who believe! Do not put (yourselves) forward before Allah and His Messenger (SAW), and fear Allah. Verily! Allah is All-Hearing, All-Knowing. O you who believe! Raise not your voices above the voice of the Prophet (SAW), nor speak aloud to him in talk as you speak aloud to one another, lest your deeds may be rendered fruitless while you perceive not. [The Noble Quran 49:1-2]

As God commanded above, we are not supposed to put ourselves ahead of the Prophet. Rather, the Prophet is the one who leads, and we follow. Therefore, he (pbuh) slaughtered, we also slaughter.

As al-Furqan said above, it is a matter of faith. We have put our faith in this Prophet to believe in far weighty matters - matters of unseen like angels, hereafter, day of judgement, hell fire, and so on. If we claim to be Muslims and can put faith in such HUGE matters, definitely we trust him in the matter of slaughtering an animal. End of story.

[iDumb]

Originally Posted by ToBeFair
There are two different issues here:

1. Some Muslims, even though may ve practicing or semi practicing, often suffer from self-esteem issues. It is as if they are ashamed for being Muslim. They often feel the need to apologize for their own religious practices. Your post oozes that sort of insecurity. The views of an insecure apologist cannot be taken seriously.

.

NO this is not insecurity. this is called being critical - hallmark of intelligence. I do not or did not apologize for other's vile acts. Your posts oozes religious bias - almost as if you can not think properly. It's not a blessing, it's being handicapped.

[iDumb]

You guys are talking a lot, almost borderline attack when all I said is I personally do not like the handling of slaughtering in many parts of the world. Instead of discussing why it is probably the best way (or things that can be implemented to make it better), you all decided to
1. compare your act to those of other - as if it's an excuse for yourself
2. Attack the person with a thought - calling him insecure
3. Used some sheep logic (circular dumb) which is not necessary in this case because my discussion is to see if there are better ways of doing this or not but you taking it as if I am calling out the religion for this.

Perspective.

[iDumb]

Here is a thought. Slaughtering should be performed by some one after they obtain a licence to do so and not by any random person. Anything that is done in a controlled setting tend to have better outcomes.



Look at the direction of the knife. These are called EDUCATION. I have seen in Bangladesh field it is going the opposite way (where going from trachea (hard part) inward).. Cows running with half of its throat cut.

You can argue evolution and that there is actully nothing wrong with inflicting pain on your prey as thats the laws of the universe but as an animal of superior intelligence, morals - it is your duty to alleviate that suffering of your prey as much as possible. That's my opinion. You can disagree and that's fine with me too...

But don't GIVE me some Bullshit logic that because everybody practice this way - it's the religious way - so it's the best way - and if you disagree you suffer from this or that...or get all defense over nothing like pedro did it this way why i can't i do it this way.

[iDumb]

Al furqan touched on it nicely with his video and Zubiha halal. There is nothing wrong with trying to do any job better. There is room for improvement on everything that we do.

Inability to not be open about it is what will hinder discoveries, inventions and ultimately result in a life inside a dirty cave - the state of today's Muslims. Ever wondered why not a single Muslim majority country currently in the world that is a super power, wealthy, or has advanced technology, ongoing research. Most muslim countries are POOR. Never occurred to any of you why that is the reason when Islam has such a rich history??

Just look put Muslims under the right setting, they can win you a world cup (france 2018). The key word is the right setting.. where your religion poses not a hindrance but promotes efficiency.

Anyways, I will reduce my participation here and regarding religion as it never goes well. But Islam is not a perfect religion in its current form no matter how loudly you say it.

[BengaliPagol]

Originally Posted by iDumb
You area laughing becuase you haven't read the posts. What does Beef consumption by others have anything to do with cow slaughtering by Muslims on EID? You as a Muslim supposed to be better. But we all know that is one wihsful thinking. No offense. Many ppl who follow religion are just very vile in nature when a bit of their comfort zone is questioned.

Why is it so hard for you accept that there are pain being inflicted on an animal when they go under the blade? What does Mcdonalds have to do with what YOU DO?

You clearly do not know what constitutes "halal meat" then if you are questioning these things.

[BengaliPagol]

BTW slaughtering meat is not an obligation on eid-ul-adha. If you do want to get technical then yes it is tough to categorise meat industries as properly halal, so perhaps we should consider steering away from it. And maybe perhaps only look to give the meat to the poor only rather than for ourselves. But their is a standard in place to categorise something as halal which is founded on the principle of mercy.

If you are talking specifically about the the killing of animals in this day and age in the climate we are living in then yes I agree with you that there is clearly injustices taking place and as Muslims we have lost touch of our roots of our tradition when it comes to showing compassion and mercy with these animals being slaughtered. There is so much barakah in food when done and prepared properly.

This has nothing to do with Islam. This is based on the capitalist system and corporatisation of the world in which we are living

[One World]

I agree with iD***

We require a PETA friendly version of such annihilation.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chil...ient_Near_East

[BengaliPagol]

Non believers and atheists like to take the moral high ground, even though their own moral relativism means that there is no moral high ground.

[One World]

Originally Posted by BengaliPagol
Non believers and atheists like to take the moral high ground, even though their own moral relativism means that there is no moral high ground.

Incorrect.

A believer does not need to prove anything whereas an agnostic goes by the observation and may turn into an atheist or vice versa. Agnostic observes and then strives to make an understanding out of the environment more like the Himu character. I cannot tell how an observer would ponder in Mars, Amazon rain forests or even near North Pole (for example will he wait to break fast for whole six months while the Ramadan/2 Eids etc. already over near the equator). But interestingly a believer goes by full submission. He does not have to stand his ground every time his belief system/prophecies/history/legacy are criticized or questioned by believers of other systems/atheists/non-believers etc.

So, when I see people 1. starts gathering all kinds of symbolic proof for existence of their belief system, 2. becomes furious and leaves no stones unturned to fingerpoint and hairsplit the wrong vs right, it only makes me laugh.

This is a waste of time for a believer, but for an agnostic/atheist not so much. It is essential for the latter group. Almost as is this is part of evolution, an struggle for existence in a highly polarized world.

[tonmoy.dhaka]

Now that the Eid and the feast are over.. Let me bring about some of the more troubling facts which are never taught in Schools (in Bangladesh) or discussed in mosques about the festival.

1/ There is no biblical reference to Abraham ever being anywhere near Kaaba. Infact Mecca was never even a major trade route/hub/center as portrayed in Islam.

2/ Christian Romans were not even aware of Kaaba, they never invaded Mecca, tells you how unimportant a religious location it was for Christians and Jews.

No Christians and/or Jews consider Mecca a sacred Christian/Jewish site.

3/ Muslims and the prophet used to pray towards Jerusalem before moving towards Kaaba.

4/ Historians (not associated with any religion ) believes Kaaba was actually built by the Arab Pagans. Kaaba used to house the most important idol(God) of the Quraysh tribe (Prophets tribe)

5/ Circling the Kaaba was again a pagan practice and so was venerating the black stone.

6/ Practice of throwing stones against the stone pillars during Hajj symbolizes Abraham scaring away the devil by throwing stone towards him, that is how powerful the devil is(just thought it was funny, so mentioning it here ) .

7/ Finally , the one major reason I find Islam extremely hateful

Quran [9 28]
O you who have believed, indeed the polytheists are unclean, so let them not approach al-Masjid al-Haram after this, their [final] year. And if you fear privation, Allah will enrich you from His bounty if He wills. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Wise.

Yes, I do not believe polytheist are unclean... If a same statement was made against Muslims, there would be outrage (Rightly so).

The verse above is also the reason why non muslims are not allowed to enter Mecca this day because they are unclean. Not to mention the clock tower right beside Mecca was designed and constructed mainly by non muslims, they had to do it out of site which made this work even more challenging.

[One World]

The above post is a pure example of just what I said in my earlier post.

[Zeeshan]

One World is enlightened. He is basically near the level of Ancient One lol.

Missed your posts. It's a privilege to have you in the forum.

And no I used unsalted Keri Gold grass fed butter.

[Zeeshan]

Originally Posted by iDumb
Eid Mubarak to all.

though i like meat. it is hard for me to see all the animals get slaughtered and the open celebration of human cruelty during eid ul adha.

But i guess that's evolution and that's the food chain meant to be.

Yeah absolutely. Faroe Island also got problem with ruddy sea from puncturing sharks or whale I think. It's not an attack against religion or anything. They also get a free pass.

To me it bothered growing seeing their beautiful dark eyes who KNOWS it will get slaughtered.

Korun chokhe artonaad kora bachar jonno chotfot kora is what bothers us ... If I may idumb?

But would you say a bullet to the head would be more humane or say the abbatoirs of McDonald's which is cloaked up behind the scene makes it more abstract?

Going back to your last point unfortunately it is what is. Reality. God. Universe... Is neutral. Impartial. Reality frankly DNGAF.

It simply.... allows.

Or else we find .. at least I do black mambas having an orgy and a f.. fest utterly DISGUSTING. But nature doesn't censor itself. It simply allows. That's the beauty of freewill and anything and everything goes.

Heh Allah hoa eto shoja na. Er jonnoi amra manuah manushi theke jabo and Allah will sit on his throne blissfully aware with mitimiti hashi and supernatural state of mind, patience, and self restraint letting the cosmic drama unfold be it holocaust, genocide, Abu Ghraib...

God actually doesn't judge. We signed up for this sh lol.

(We will probably disagree on certain issues. Theodicy meodiciy r moddhe bepartake tene anlum r qui
)

[Zeeshan]

I will make 2 points before I leave this intoxicatingly Uber civil thread. *Not to confuse with Lyft. ( Beshiie bhalo hoa bhalo na. Ektu dushtumipona korte hoy.)

First of all just like you can say flat out say God is good it is also right to make my own statement God is neither good nor bad. He is non dual and above human set standards of good or bad. He has his own unique sense and taste of nuanced justice.

One of Allah's name is The Destroyer.

Although most his attributes are Good in human terms such as again and again it has been hammered he is Merciful, Compassionate, Forgiving, Generous, Bountiful, Munificent but in order to get full picture instead of putting human characteristics on him which is incomplete by nature is to look at the gestalt flavor of his full personality.

Akhon Tumi boisha boisha hitlari korba ar tumgo Allah saira dibe na?

Moshkora koroner jay ga Pau na. Lol

As God she might very well punish them in Saw mode. Ekhon amra korle eta unethical but God has a weird sense of justice which you can only FEEL. You can only FEEL his presence and cosmic vibes.

Gayebi awaj jeta bole thaki are ki..

F'instance .. mane for instance are ki... One guy brutally raped some woman but then after caught he ended up in a cell. Guess what? The cell mate was the victim's cousin or some sh.

Lol

Ekhon Allah ki kharap hoye gelo for ALLOWING it?

Ekhom keu Jodi Hiroshima giya rahajani bomabazi kore amra take terrorist bolbo. But God obliterated Sodom and Gomorrah.

We are conditioned to think we should be tolerant of LGBT or God is pro life or pro death. He is neither. Ineffable. Frankly if I was Muslim I would be OFFENDED if someone just slapped HIS notion of human axiology on him just to gratify the ego and justify his actions.

Secondly I agree with the other poster who said there is nothing we can know for sure.

Finally Yankee got me rolling with the whole PBUH thing. LMAO. He was on a roll.

In that zoune houmayy!!!

Frankly it is a fascinating discussion and thread. Hoping the chaff got separated and we get to carry on a newly trimmed thread.