Why is atheism so prevalent at western countries?

[tonoy]

Well, I suppose the title says it all. I guess to be more specific, I should emphasize particularly on Western European society. However, it's not to say that countries at East such as Japan and China should be ignored, where East Asian religion blurs the line between faith and Western Atheism. I suppose the politically correct(if there is any) way to ask this question would be "why is atheism more so prevalent at developed countries?"

I don't think neither Intelligence nor Education are the prime factor. I have met many Atheist and I am pretty sure not all of them will be categorized as an "Einsteinian genius". To be honest, I can't seem to find a very clear answer except maybe that, people in poorer countries simply don't have the luxury to ponder over such unanswerable questions. What are your thoughts in this matter?

PS. I do not intend to stir up any controversy. I was rather curious to find out what others' intake would be on this matter here at BC. And quite frankly, I was getting tired of people whining about the Moni-Mahal.

[Orpheus]

Originally Posted by tonoy
To be honest, I can't seem to find a very clear answer except maybe that, people in poorer countries simply don't have the luxury to ponder over such unanswerable questions. What are your thoughts in this matter?
.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy

PS. I do not intend to stir up any controversy. I was rather curious to find out what others' intake would be on this matter here at BC.

This is what I think - I think you are taking a college course to fill in one of your requirement to graduate ie one of those philosophy/religious/things that will never get you a job course and you are made to read a book...

After reading the book, your intelligence on that subject matter went up 5% (will last for 1 weeks after completion of your course). So now you wanna show off that knowledge here in BC.

This thread should be moved to "taj mahal" thread.

and my reply to you: You don't have any data regarding your claim that developed countries have more atheists. That is an assumption on your part. And also you are an idiot.

[sandpiper]

abar kaijja baidha gelo

[goru]

Originally Posted by tonoy
To be honest, I can't seem to find a very clear answer except maybe that, people in poorer countries simply don't have the luxury to ponder over such unanswerable questions.

Interesting... I have a completely different take on that. Poorer (or more desperate) people want to believe there's a God to help them survive.

Also, I am not entirely convinced there are significantly more atheists in western countries than "third world" countries. I think atheists are just a lot more outspoken in western countries, so it might seem like the numbers are more significant here.

[tonoy]

It wouldn't be a proper thread without the blessings of Orphy.

[Orpheus]

Originally Posted by goru
Interesting... I have a completely different take on that. Poorer (or more desperate) people want to believe there's a God to help them survive.

your different take is wrong. People need God for everything, not just food. I am with Tonoy who ripped his idea off Maslow.

[goru]

Poor Orpheus must be all alone on xmas... hence the foul mood.

[tonoy]

Originally Posted by goru
Interesting... I have a completely different take on that. Poorer (or more desperate) people want to believe there's a God to help them survive.

Also, I am not entirely convinced there are significantly more atheists in western countries than "third world" countries. I think atheists are just a lot more outspoken in western countries, so it might seem like the numbers are more significant here.

I will have to partly agree on your first statement. But do you really think that there would be the same proportion of Atheism at lesser developed countries? I mean the "repressed" idea does seem to make sense, but I still can't picture a Bangladesh with with a greater than 1% Atheist rate. I somehow think it may correlate more with what economics than just pure rationality(I don't mean that all atheists are rational). I suppose people with better lifestyle simply get more time to ponder on such topics as I have stated above earlier.

[tonoy]

Great Read orphy. This is why I must take psychology next semester.

[Rifat]

i have an answer: only Allah almighty knows whether it is correct:

you see: many people choose the path of atheism because of their dissatisfacton with the representation of GOD in organized religion. they do not seem to have a problem with the idea of existance of GOD, but people think that if GOD almighty does exist, then why is there so much hunger in this world, so much suffering, injustice, or on a more personal level, why am i treated unfairly, or at least how they perceive it!


some people want to avoid the idea of worshipping the true God, the divine. so to avoid this problem, and serve self ego, they just advertise to people "God doesn't exist"....

plus in western societies, majority of the people were brought up with Judeo-Christian influenes...they may not realize it but the depictions of GOD in western societies is sometimes contradictory to what naturally may be true!

rejection of religon is part of it, self-Ego is part of it(in some cases)...failure to understand that Humans have a bounded limit on understanding of the laws and "How God Works..." through just reason alone... because there are missing elements that cannot be proved using reason and technology alone(which is part of the answer), things like "NUR" "Allahu "Nurus samawati wal-ard" Allah is the light of the heavens and the earth.... and exactly what "creates" life itself can NEVER be discovered...because this knowledge is accessible to God Alone. and some people will never accept this fact thus without any clear evidence, they conjecture: God doesn't exist!

i am sorry if i offended some people, i needed to tell the truth, and Allah knows best!

i know this is not the best answer, inshallah when Allah grants me more wisdom, i shall respond more accurately!

[goru]

Originally Posted by tonoy
but I still can't picture a Bangladesh with with a greater than 1% Atheist rate.

Well, 1% would even beat the US!

The 2001 ARIS report found that while 29.5 million U.S. Americans (14.1%) describe themselves as "without religion", only 902,000 (0.4%) positively claim to be atheist, with another 991,000 (0.5%) professing agnosticism.

[Orpheus]

Originally Posted by rifat
plus in western societies, majority of the people were brought up with Judeo-Christian influenes...they may not realize it but the depictions of GOD in western societies is sometimes contradictory to what naturally may be true!

maane ki?

[goru]

(I know this is going off topic, but you know it was going to, sooner or later...)

I am gonna ignore all the sterotypical views of why people "become" atheists (my view is that we are all born atheists, and are influenced to become theistic as we grow up), but...

Originally Posted by rifat
and exactly what "creates" life itself can NEVER be discovered...because this knowledge is accessible to God Alone

Wow, so all the hypotheses surrounding Abiogenesis are complete nonsense and just a waste of time? Better inform those dumb scientists!

[Rifat]

Originally Posted by Orpheus
maane ki?

scientific facts versus what the man-edited Unholy Bible! read it and conclude for yourself!

the reason(s) why i call it unholy...

1.God regrets after creation? Genesis chapter26!

2. Noah seduces her daughters when "drunk"??? while he is a prophet???(Genesis)

3. appearant Lewdnes while clearly there are verses against it... overall the man-edited scripture implies that God lacks simple common sense(may i be forgiven for this comment...)!!!

4. implications that God doesn't control all events....contrary to islamic depictions of God...

when you read the bible with intellect, you will realize that it's creation story is nothing but men's perception of how God created this world...it is a clear invention!

i am sorry, i am getting off-topic!let me clarify...

[Rifat]

Originally Posted by goru
(I know this is going off topic, but you know it was going to, sooner or later...)

I am gonna ignore all the sterotypical views of why people "become" atheists (my view is that we are all born atheists, and are influenced to become theistic as we grow up), but...



Wow, so all the hypotheses surrounding Abiogenesis are complete nonsense and just a waste of time? Better inform those dumb scientists!

what i meant to say is...we will never be able to produce life itself from void! from void i mean NOTHING...we will acquire(we already have...) "part of this knowledge" but not Complete knowledge!

[Orpheus]

Originally Posted by rifat
the reason(s) why i call it unholy...

you said they were not "natural" and I asked you to elaborate but sadly you answered exactly the way I thought you would.

First you took Quran as a fact and you read bible or Torah in relation to that - and concluded latter is unnatural. Why not the other way round?

4. implications that God doesn't control all events....contrary to islamic depictions of God...

[goru]

Originally Posted by rifat
we will never be able to produce life itself from void! from void i mean NOTHING...we will acquire(we already have...) "part of this knowledge" but not Complete knowledge!

I am sure you mean creating elementary particles from void. Creating life is a long way from there.

Not sure what "complete" knowledge means, but maybe you mean when "there is nothing more to know" ... which implies that knowledge is finite (!)

[Rifat]

Originally Posted by Orpheus
you said they were not "natural" and I asked you to elaborate but sadly you answered exactly the way I thought you would.

First you took Quran as a fact and you read bible or Torah in relation to that - and concluded latter is unnatural. Why not the other way round?

natural: meanng it contradicts the scientific laws which governs the Universe as a whole. or it contradicts basic, simple logic.

find me a verse in the quran which contradicts established scientific fact...i have searched...so far, found none(i am still trying hard, believe me!)

or make it really simple: find a verse in quran which is false by nature and it contradicts another verse in quran! i have tried, and still trying to this day!!!

btw, the smiley indicates lack of vision!(again, i am indeed a person of a rude character)

[Rifat]

Originally Posted by goru
I am sure you mean creating elementary particles from void. Creating life is a long way from there.

Not sure what "complete" knowledge means, but maybe you mean when "there is nothing more to know" ... which implies that knowledge is finite (!)

we are very little and insignificant compared to the magnitude of knowledge and vastness of space in this Universe... but from the perspective ofthe Designer of this magnificent orderly Universe, it is finite(though beyond the scope of our limit to fathom it...)

yes! from our perspective, yes, it only appears to be infinite, since we can only represent quantity by numbers! and wow...what large number!

[Orpheus]

Originally Posted by rifat
natural: meanng it contradicts the scientific laws which governs the Universe as a whole. or it contradicts basic, simple logic.

find me a verse in the quran which contradicts established scientific fact...i have searched...so far, found none(i am still trying hard, believe me!)

from your first post

rejection of religon is part of it, self-Ego is part of it(in some cases)...failure to understand that Humans have a bounded limit on understanding of the laws and "How God Works..." through just reason alone... because there are missing elements that cannot be proved using reason and technology alone(which is part of the answer), things like "NUR" "Allahu "Nurus samawati wal-ard"

You contradicted yourself, how do you expect me to trust your judgement that you failed to see contradictions in a text?

btw, the smiley indicates lack of vision!(again, i am indeed a person of a rude character)

you made up with rudeness what you lack in intelligence. It happens.

[Farhad]

Originally Posted by goru
Well, 1% would even beat the US!

The US isn't a great example of the average developed country in these matters. Its gotten to a point where a person is almost expected to be religious to be considered "American". Atheism is the single most oppressed belief in America. Even more so than Islam. As a matter of fact, there was a study a couple of months ago which showed that more people would rather see a Muslim president than an atheist one. Personally, i find atheism a bit too absolute to be completely subjective, but id rather see them out in the open and not worried to be found "unamerican"

[goru]

I already know where this discussion is gonna go.

Me: So who designed this designer?
You: He is undesigned.

...

[Rifat]

Originally Posted by Orpheus
from your first post



You contradicted yourself, how do you expect me to trust your judgement that you failed to see contradictions in a text?



you made up with rudeness what you lack in intelligence. It happens.

do not come near to me in the day of judgement seeking for a way to recompensate for "disbelief"...i simply tried my best!(an arrogant comment...i doubt i will have that priviledge, but it is what i struggle and live for)

when you are given a "free-ride" on earth, you can say what you want because it is all part of pleasure(only limited pleasure for an apointed term) so i will not forbid you to exercise your sense of freedom...

btw, you stated contradiction, not proved it!

[Rifat]

how can you say God doesn't have control over all affairs when everything is "taught" to you? do ye have no sense?

[Orpheus]

Originally Posted by rifat
do not come near to me in the day of judgement seeking for a way to recompensate for "disbelief"...i simply tried my best!(an arrogant comment...i doubt i will have that priviledge, but it is what i struggle and live for)

when you are given a "free-ride" on earth, you can say what you want because it is all part of pleasure(only limited pleasure for an apointed term) so i will not forbid you to exercise your sense of freedom...

NUTcase! Go see a psychiatrist.

btw, you stated contradiction, not proved it!

Yes I know. You can't prove contradictions. Otherwise they wouldn't be contradictions right?