Of Soothsayers, Cycles And Mohammad Nazimuddin, Is He Just Another One Hit Wonder?

[Beamer]

Its better to talk in past tense when it comes to Bashar. He had good hand-eye, had good reflexes, was always a technically deficient player and remains so, but scored a ton of runs in tests despite that. No arguement there. He got lots of runs, not because he had a good technique, but, he played like a no.3 should and counter attacked the opposition. His attitude was positive and that intent alone translated into runs for us. But to say that he didn't have much deficiency in his technique is a blatant, but willful disregard of facts. His productivity or numbers by our standard are not in question here.

[Nafi]

Originally Posted by Eshen
I don't think increasing your muscle mass makes you faster. There are two kind of muscle fibre in your body - red (fast twitch) and white (slow twitch). For fast bowlers, as you can guess, you need a high percentage of red muscle fiber. Although by endurance exercises you can increase red fiber by a small percentage, proportion of the muscle fibre types in your body is largely inherited. Rasel, in his life so far, has played so many matches (club, age group, FC, A-team, national team) and bowled so many overs (which is a very heavy workout), he should have reached the limit how much he can improve muscle fiber composition in his body by now.

Agreed

fast bowlers are born, not trained.

[al Furqaan]

Originally Posted by Beamer
Its better to talk in past tense when it comes to Bashar. He had good hand-eye, had good reflexes, was always a technically deficient player and remains so, but scored a ton of runs in tests despite that. No arguement there. He got lots of runs, not because he had a good technique, but, he played like a no.3 should and counter attacked the opposition. His attitude was positive and that intent alone translated into runs for us. But to say that he didn't have much deficiency in his technique is a blatant, but willful disregard of facts. His productivity or numbers by our standard are not in question here.

bashar is done...i fully agree with that. unless he does what pilot is doing, there is no way he should come back.

however if you look at bashar's stats, for a while in his career he was averaging 40 and for the vast majority of it was averaging 35, 36. thats comparable to ganguly and sarwan. bashar was class, no friggin doutb about it. but the key word is was.

i agree his technique was non existant, but rare players can suceed without technique, and often technically sound players struggle (e.g. rajin saleh).

its a bit like education. not all rich or successful people are educated, although most are. similarily not all educated people are rich.

[Megh]

Bashar moves like "PANDULAM". he has very good inningses under his belt and may be he was the best test batsman. but now?? he is totally worthless. but i want to see him in test though, not in ODIs.

[israr]

Ashes of BC; Miraz bhai vs Sohel bhai.
One thing is for sure, I am learning a lot from both of them, whether be it in terms of improving the vocabulary, counter-replying, increasing one's knowledge on minute aspects of cricket, how the tone of posts should be in different situations, and so many................
Without these two legends in Banglacricket, its really cricket without Ashes, or passion for cricket without the subcontinental nations.

[Miraz]

One minor addition..

During the interview with Naimur Rahman Durjoy I asked him about Nazimuddin.

Here's the response

"Nazimuddin is one of the technically sound players in the pipeline, he is still young and learning. He performed quite well with the A team in different conditions, but I want to give him some more time before considering him for Test cricket. I want to groom players before they enter into the national team so that we can get a long term service. He is a bright prospect and will get his opportunity in due time. ".

[wrong `un]

Did you ask about anyone else or just Nazimuddin? Just like Sohel's long posts which are full of propaganda, dont make your interviews full of propaganda too.

Btw he is technically okay but he had problems with swing bowling all through his career, maybe because his footwork is a bit lazy.

[Miraz]

Originally Posted by wrong `un
Did you ask about anyone else or just Nazimuddin? Just like Sohel's long posts which are full of propaganda, dont make your interviews full of propaganda too.

Btw he is technically okay but he had problems with swing bowling all through his career, maybe because his footwork is a bit lazy.

Nope! I am not that mean. Please look at the previous interviews and this is an official BanglaCricket interview.

I asked him about some promising players and Nazimuddin was one of them. Please wait for the interview to be published before making any judgment.

[Hatebreed]

Now I know why I'm so addicted to this forum.

As far as Nazimuddin is concerned, I don't think he's had enough chance to prove his worth in the international arena. Obviously lot of us were excited after a taste of his warm-up heroics, but we couldn't have predicted his later performances. Naturally a lot of BD fans have knee-jerk reactions to players who fail to live up to expectations, without consideration whether their expection is justified, instead of the player's merit or inclusion. I think his domestic performance should conitnued to be monitored, to see if he can indeed play his natural game at the highest level. He could be still one of our best prospects for T20 cricket.

[wrong `un]

Originally Posted by Miraz
Nope! I am not that mean. Please look at the previous interviews and this is an official BanglaCricket interview.

I asked him about some promising players and Nazimuddin was one of them. Please wait for the interview to be published before making any judgment.

If you had asked him about promising cricketers like Sajidul, Dollar, Zunaed and others then it is perfectly okay. Anyways I wasn't passing a judgement but doubting you as this is the only part of the interview that's already out in BC. Waiting for the rest of it.

[WarWolf]

Originally Posted by Hatebreed
Now I know why I'm so addicted to this forum.

As far as Nazimuddin is concerned, I don't think he's had enough chance to prove his worth in the international arena. Obviously lot of us were excited after a taste of his warm-up heroics, but we couldn't have predicted his later performances. Naturally a lot of BD fans have knee-jerk reactions to players who fail to live up to expectations, without consideration whether their expection is justified, instead of the player's merit or inclusion. I think he should conitnued, to see if he can indeed play his natural game at the highest level. He could be still one of our best prospects for T20 cricket.

I watched him on TV playing in the T20 cup and in the NCL. Looking at the way he plays I got the feeling that his inclusion in the T20 cup was wrong. He is doesn't like to play dhum dharakka type innings, he likes to build innings. Probably that's why he failed to cope with the pressure in that tournament. This is really too early to make any comment on him before getting decent chances.

[Hatebreed]

Originally Posted by WarWolf
I watched him on TV playing in the T20 cup and in the NCL. Looking at the way he plays I got the feeling that his inclusion in the T20 cup was wrong. He is doesn't like to play dhum dharakka type innings, he likes to build innings. Probably that's why he failed to cope with the pressure in that tournament. This is really too early to make any comment on him before getting decent chances.

His inclusion in the squad is debatable, but do you think his inclusion in the playing XI was justified after the warm-up matches? I think most of our expectations of him were based on his solo performance in preparation than the actual T20 WC matches, which I was also thoroughly disappointed to see. Nonetheless, it seemed pressure more than anything that seemed rattle him, so perhaps he wasn't ready to play at this level. As for his style of play in the NCL, as I said his performance should be monitored before his inclusion, if and wherever, whenever that might be, can be determined.

[Tigers_eye]

Since this is the "maramari" thread, I will lend my share.

Originally Posted by Tigers_eye
Sohel bhai Jindabad on Rasel's analysis. Now you need to give him some tips on body building technic. Muscle mass. Appropriate weight training!!

Originally Posted by Eshen
I don't think increasing your muscle mass makes you faster. There are two kind of muscle fibre in your body - red (fast twitch) and white (slow twitch). For fast bowlers, as you can guess, you need a high percentage of red muscle fiber. Although by endurance exercises you can increase red fiber by a small percentage, proportion of the muscle fibre types in your body is largely inherited. Rasel, in his life so far, has played so many matches (club, age group, FC, A-team, national team) and bowled so many overs (which is a very heavy workout), he should have reached the limit how much he can improve muscle fiber composition in his body by now.

Thanks for the lesson. Will be handy for some other time.

Wrong assumption will get you in to trouble. Is there anywhere in this thread or in any other thread (for that purpose), I ever vented on Rasel's speed? What makes you think that I want Rasel to bowl faster? (Unless you have mistaken me for someone else)

All I want that boy to get some muscle, physically be more fit. Proper weight training and correct diet can help him acheive that. I want this just so that he can sustain longer spells and don't break down. Around same age or a little older Michael started serious weight training in the off season to sustain the "BAD BOYS (Detroit Pistons)" physical play. Not only he dished out his share of physical punishiment but also had enough in his tank to finish a game from there on.

I know Rasel is not 1/100th of an athlete of MJ but any physical improvement will prolong his durability and career. Thank you.

[akabir77]

khaisey amarey notun Innings shuru hoilo...

Shojorey hook T_E bhai er. Ball shorashori mater bairey...

Now lets see what kind of bowl would the bowler ball? a bouncer, a yorker or a slower?

[Murad]

Damn this thread is really dangerous. Khali mara mari.

[Fazal]

[Tigers_eye]

Wow!! The boy has dented the fat man's belly and pushing him backwards!! Way to go.

[Murad]

oi dekho ebar fazal bhai ki post korlo... funny pic

[Nocturnal]

That's very funny Fazal bhai

[Eshen]

Sorry guru, I did not mean to piss you off. Yeah, I made the wrong assumption why you wanted Rasel to concentrate more on weight training.

However, I am interested to know how can increasing muscle mass can help a fast bowler increase his endurance. Is there any scientific explanation for that ?

From what I have heard, an athlete should be very careful with weight training because weight training focus on isolated muscles and can make negative effect on overall body balance (which is a very important factor for a pacer). Weight training also makes you gain extra weight which is not desirable for an athlete. Sceptics also say heavy weight training may decrease flexibility. Which is why many athletes (and fast bowlers too) prefer swimming which is a much better endurance exercise.

I think the best way for a bowler of Rasel's age to build up his endurance is to keep bowling long spells. Zaheer Khan, for example, had trouble with endurance and people advised him to spend a full season in English county league where he has to bowl lots of overs. After Zaheer done that, I have not yet heard anything about his endurance problem.

P.S. This is just a hypothetical discussion. I don't see any reason for Rasel to gain more muscle mass and there is nothing wrong if someone else thinks otherwise.

[Imtiazk]

Sohel, I can understand a lot you wrote was deeply buried frustration bursting out ! Sadly, following Bangladesh cricket is riding an emotional roller-coaster. But we do it because that is where we are from.

Coming back to your headline player, Nazimuddin, I would not rule him out yet. In my humble opinion, I have both the opening positions at the moment vacant. In the past , as you know, I have backed JO, not because he was technically gifted or was attractive to watch but simply because amongst others he was the least likely to throw his wicket away. However, his obsession [ lack of talent - not knowing where his off-stump is ] of poking at a ball which could easily have been left alone almost makes that shot as bad as any silly shot Aftab or Ashraful would play.

Nafees at least scored a 100 against Australia. But he can hardly raise a bat now !
In my desperation I was hoping for some runs for Mushfiq so that he could open. I do not rate him at all as a wicket keeper in test matches. We could not afford a missed catch or stumping and then see the batsman score 200. However, even he is failing here. No one stands out at all.

So, I would not rule out Nazimuddin just yet. Scoring runs against mediocre bowling must surely be a precondition before scoring runs against better bowlers.

[Imtiazk]

Originally Posted by Eshen
Sorry guru, I did not mean to piss you off. Yeah, I made the wrong assumption why you wanted Rasel to concentrate more on weight training.

However, I am interested to know how can increasing muscle mass can help a fast bowler increase his endurance. Is there any scientific explanation for that ?

P.S. This is just a hypothetical discussion. I don't see any reason for Rasel to gain more muscle mass and there is nothing wrong if someone else thinks otherwise.

Just coming back to Rasel, I think endurance is not a problem for him. I do not know of any other Bangladeshi bowler who bowls 10 overs at a trot. Rasel's only "problem" , at least to some, is his pace. Not to me. I would like him to add maybe another 8 - 10 kph but not at the expense of his accuracy. He is a good bowler.

[Tigers_eye]

Originally Posted by Eshen
Sorry guru, I did not mean to piss you off. Yeah, I made the wrong assumption why you wanted Rasel to concentrate more on weight training.

No problem. We all make mistakes. Be it gurus or first class cricketers.

Originally Posted by Eshen
However, I am interested to know how can increasing muscle mass can help a fast bowler increase his endurance. Is there any scientific explanation for that ?

From what I have heard, an athlete should be very careful with weight training because weight training focus on isolated muscles and can make negative effect on overall body balance (which is a very important factor for a pacer).

You have said it loud and clear. "very careful" - Why would he not be careful? We have several athletic facilities in Dhaka for what I have heard which are run by professionals. He should not have trouble if going in those facilities. Supervised weight training is there. For keeping a sound body balance, there are compound exercises. He can definitely focus on his thighs and back with some attention to the shoulder.

Weight training will definitely increase his muscles and strenghten them. Strong muscles are less prone to be damaged when a heavier load is given. Wheather this will increase his endurance I am not sure but definitely allow him to take more load and not get injured. In other words, assist him bowl longer spells.

Originally Posted by Eshen
P.S. This is just a hypothetical discussion. I don't see any reason for Rasel to gain more muscle mass and there is nothing wrong if someone else thinks otherwise.

Great!! I think he needs to gain muscle and get stronger. Probably down the road he may need to do armwrestle with Symond or Hayden. You never know!!

[Fazal]

Talking about Rasel... I think he need to take some better lessons from a professional actor. I believe last year I saw some ad... Mashrafee and Shahadat did ok... but Rasel's one was hilarious... he looked like a joker.

[Kabir]

I tried to observe the arguments here all this time. Enjoyed the arguments thoroughly, though we're talking about about two people whose sources are completely different. While Sohel bhai follows the matches by actually seeing the players live (on TV and on field; I know he travels to watch many of these matches) and thoroughly observes the players with a binocular, Miraz bhai follows the matches by watching it live on TV, and reading many different sources. Both have good sources in BCB. So can't decide who's right and who's wrong.

Anyway, I guess only time will tell.

As for this piece, the observations and claims made about the players are great, although too much use of adjectives and adverbs . I guess the argument that everyone's missing is that we, the fans, are mostly worried about stats. And this is a small try by Sohel bhai to point out that stats should be analyzed in conjunction to the players' technical abilities.

Anyway, how come the discussion cooled down so fast?