Minimum wage in NYC at 15 usd/hr starting Jan, 2019

[iDumb]

While federal wage remains at 7.25

Thoughts? I don't like my Mcdonalds Big Mac to cost 12 dollars. Or one thigh from KFC to cost 2.50. That's pretty aggressive increase.

Try hiring a baby sitter to go to work - and you will realize u will come out ahead staying home.

[NoName]

That is quite a lot.

Its only $14 (10.5 USD), the highest in Canada, in Ontario and Toronto is probably one of the most expensive cities in North America

[cricman]

I think everyone deserves a decent working wage but I think something along the lines of $12/hr would have been better.

It'll be interesting to observe, because with this age increase. Some people wont be eligible for welfare

[iDumb]

Originally Posted by cricman
I think everyone deserves a decent working wage but I think something along the lines of $12/hr would have been better.

It'll be interesting to observe, because with this age increase. Some people wont be eligible for welfare

I don't think many ppl currently earning the minimum wage is on "welfare". Maybe medicaid. Whoever is on are gaming the system. The taxes are however favorable to them with paying almost zero taxes or getting money back in some cases.

I agree everyone deserves a decent working wage but this creates a very expensive living standard and it also eliminates the gap between ANY job vs some of the more lower paid harder to get before jobs - for ex a pharmacy tech.

[DinRaat.]

How's free healthcare going....oh wait wrong country.

[ToBeFair]

As a proponent of social progressive economic policies, I am a huge supporter of 15 dollar per hour minimum wage. Irrespective of what you are doing, if you are WORKING (reread the word work, they are not taking $15 for free) forty hours per week, you deserve a decent life.

The talk about people losing motivation to go after skilled profession because of being able to make a decent living off easy jobs does not hold water. White collar jobs will always, and even now, pay way above $15 per hour. But since both white and blue collar workers are HUMAN, and human beings have intrinsic value, each human deserves to live with dignity. Capitalism denies this basic belief in the name of competition self regulating and self taking care of everything, which is the biggest lie of capitalism (this lie is what we say shiyaler kache murgi borga). Competition takes care of product and service quality to some extent as long as there exists competition, but as soon as someone becomes as huge as Amazon, Walmart, US Airline, which is inevitable in capitalism, competition and choice go out of the window. Big companies buy everything and become the solo player. Thus you need regulation in the form of progressive taxation, minimum wage, consumer protection, labor unions, and anti trust laws to protect the consumers, the workers, and the economy in general. Fearmonger it as much as you want by chanting big government but fact is fact.

As FDR famously said (and this is not the exact quote), to keep their wealth, the rich must give a little bit of it to the people of lower social echelon. Otherwise, the spending power of the general mass will weaken gradually, economic and investment activities will come to a halt, and wealth, instead of being circulated and invested throuout the economy, will remain stagnated at the hands of super rich, which is what has happened not only in America but almost everywhere in the world. Middle class has been decimated everywhere. This was the expected result of crony capitalism and extreme neo liberalism. When it comes to tax cut, Republicans and Reaganomics promote trickle down theory, i.e., uber rich investing their wealth from tax cut back into economy to create more jobs and raise the pay of their existing workers, but research after research proved that this proposed trickle down never happens. What happens is more wealth gets accrued by the rich, jobs are cut again, wages are lowered, and labor moves to becoming slave labor (example: our garmets industry is nothing but slave labor even though some have profits in billions).

Right wing shall say, America does not mean free stuff. But this $15 per hour is not given for free. And America also does not mean slave labor, lack of choice, helpless consumer, and monopoly of a single entity. A recent report from soccer leaks showed that French Footballer Kante alone paid more in taxes than Amazon and Starbucks combined, who are using all the infrastructures built by public money to do their businesses. And yet whenever a progressive policy is passed in favor people, people are cunningly shamed with slogans like America does not mean free stuff.

So this $15 per hour at NY is a minor victory. We need a global minimum wage. We need strong anti trust laws, strong consumer protection, progressive taxation, and strong labor unions everywhere. If that means our standard of living going up a little, so be it. As our national poet Kazi Nazrul Islam wrote diney diney bohu bariyache dena shudhite hoibe reen.

PS. May be I should run for office instead of Mashrafe as a leftist. But wait...all the fierce leftists of Mujeeb era (Inu, Menon) are now majhi of neo liberal nouka Amlig.

[iDumb]

Disagree with many of the things you wrote. In an ideal world everyone is middle class or rich. But higher minimum wage also has consequences including shrinking middle class. The middle class' purchasing power becomes lower and they somewhat shift toward the poorer side. Not all work is created equal. It's not the hours of work put in that should measure how much you are paid rather how much you are generating. In an ideal world of yours - the company and the big boys take the hit but in real world - it's you and me who pays higher for same crappy goods.

[iDumb]

Big companies can make their own minimum wage but cost of doing small business becomes difficult if the limit is set that high from state level to begin with imo. Not all employers are amazon or costco. There is also your favorite roti shop that will get shut down when they can't pay their worker or ppl stop buying 13 dollars roti.

[ToBeFair]

1. Capitalism is based on the premise of scarcity - it is believed that there is not enough for everyone. This is the first lie of capitalism. God has given more than enough for each and every human being. It is all about proper distribution.

2. In a real world, it is possible for everyone to be rich or middle class. Don't want to bring religion here, but during the caliphate of Umar ibn Abdul Aziz, people could not be found eligible to take zakat money, and it will repeated again per the prophecy of Prophet Muhammad (s) when Mahdi shall rule the world. The point is, we have historical precedence that if there is proper distribution of wealth (be it through zakat or progressive taxation like the Scandinavian countries), everyone can be a middle class or above.

3. Today Jeff Bezos alone can pay for free college in America. He alone can remove world hunger. It was once calculated and found that zakat of a few Muslim businessmen from a Forbes list would be enough for a few Muslim countries. Thus it is a pure myth that there is not enough for everyone. Rather the system is designed such that it allows few people to gather all wealth at the expense of everyone.

4. It is understandable that two people both working eight hours are different in terms of their input and thus value generation. But under no circumstances, for the same work hours, the difference cannot be hundred times or thousand times or more. If a CEO earns thousand times more than a worker, it is not meritocracy, it is a system of crookedness because there will only be one CEO, even if there are hundreds of qualified people in the same comoany. Since there are not enough opportunities for everyone to become CEOs, managers, hours worked must be given more weight instead of discriminating people in the name of value generation.

5. High minimum wage will not destroy small business. Higher minimum wage means higher buying power at the same time, and when the general mass is provided with decent living wage, they do not not mind buying a roti for a higher price. It is the general mass that spends and not the top 0.1%. How many iPhones can Bezos buy? Monopoly on the other hand destroys all small businesses. Look at how Walmart destroyed all grocery shops or how Monsanto is destroying individual land farming around the world.

[iDumb]

I agree with some of your points .. ie no limited resources . Or big companies also drive away small out of business ..monopolistic practice etc etc ..

Despite some of these shortcomings I still prefer a capitalistic world to live in. Our thinking is just different in this regard. The infrastructure is there for me Or for any one else to rise up the social ladder as well ... many many one percenter in this country are self made . I like to be in a place where I can thrive like that if I got the skills and the hustle. And I want infrastructure and laws that eases this barrier to social mobility

With setting high minimum wage ..one has to be careful not to hinder small business growth ..discoirage start up innovations.... not to worsen middle class struggle .. all while trying to lift up the bottom with inflated compensation . Struggling salary is very subjective . It also creates proliferation and misuse of illegal Immigrnats. I always support laws that will severely restrict opportunities for illegals so the system would take care of itself. If there are no jobs no one is crossing over.

Everyone deserves a right to life liberty and PERSUIT of happiness. Right to pursue only

[Yankees]

Alot of these minimum wage jobs will be eliminated through automation. McD already introduced the self order kiosks and they will only be adding more. The other fast food places will follow suit. McD is also looking into delivery. So instead of employees working the drive-thru, they will just have "partner drivers" who wont be subjected to the 15 min wage.

[Yankees]

Originally Posted by ToBeFair
1. Capitalism is based on the premise of scarcity - it is believed that there is not enough for everyone. This is the first lie of capitalism. God has given more than enough for each and every human being. It is all about proper distribution.

2. In a real world, it is possible for everyone to be rich or middle class. Don't want to bring religion here, but during the caliphate of Umar ibn Abdul Aziz, people could not be found eligible to take zakat money, and it will repeated again per the prophecy of Prophet Muhammad (s) when Mahdi shall rule the world. The point is, we have historical precedence that if there is proper distribution of wealth (be it through zakat or progressive taxation like the Scandinavian countries), everyone can be a middle class or above.

3. Today Jeff Bezos alone can pay for free college in America. He alone can remove world hunger. It was once calculated and found that zakat of a few Muslim businessmen from a Forbes list would be enough for a few Muslim countries. Thus it is a pure myth that there is not enough for everyone. Rather the system is designed such that it allows few people to gather all wealth at the expense of everyone.

4. It is understandable that two people both working eight hours are different in terms of their input and thus value generation. But under no circumstances, for the same work hours, the difference cannot be hundred times or thousand times or more. If a CEO earns thousand times more than a worker, it is not meritocracy, it is a system of crookedness because there will only be one CEO, even if there are hundreds of qualified people in the same comoany. Since there are not enough opportunities for everyone to become CEOs, managers, hours worked must be given more weight instead of discriminating people in the name of value generation.

5. High minimum wage will not destroy small business. Higher minimum wage means higher buying power at the same time, and when the general mass is provided with decent living wage, they do not not mind buying a roti for a higher price. It is the general mass that spends and not the top 0.1%. How many iPhones can Bezos buy? Monopoly on the other hand destroys all small businesses. Look at how Walmart destroyed all grocery shops or how Monsanto is destroying individual land farming around the world.

Have you heard of Andrew Yang? He's the founder of Venture for America, and one of the smartest and charismatic guy I've ever met. He's also a hopeful democratic candidate for 2020, and his platform is universal basic income.

IMo he has no chance to win, but I love his UBI platform. His justification is similar to alot of what you wrote, but give the whole thing a read and curios to know what you think.

[iDumb]

Originally Posted by Yankees
Alot of these minimum wage jobs will be eliminated through automation. McD already introduced the self order kiosks and they will only be adding more. The other fast food places will follow suit. McD is also looking into delivery. So instead of employees working the drive-thru, they will just have "partner drivers" who wont be subjected to the 15 min wage.

this is actually an excellent point. With these higher minimum wages the push for smart technology implementation is higher. These anyone can do jobs will soon be extinct and what remain will be skillful jobs.

not that keeping minimum wage low would prevent automation but there will be a price point where it will make more sense to expedite.

And competetion for these jobs would intensify eventually and perhaps cause more unemployment. But that's all theoretical for now but thought have merit.

Btw i hate those self order kiosk. i won't use them. I already pay high for burger. same as walmart self checkout. F you All. Pack my bag. That is an expectation.

[iDumb]

Universal basic income. LOL. More handouts. SURE!! It may work on small scale but in countries with large population, it can only be a disaster and ripe for abuse. USA , uk and some western countries technically already have those in one form or the other, it's just not called that.

40% of US workers (lower wage) pay ZERO taxes with many getting money back. Fact. Mind blown.

[Yankees]

^ incase you havent noticed, the current system is already ripe for abuse and abused daily. There aree over 80 different federal programs. a complete clusterf*ck. UBI is a potential solution to eliminate all that. It's also a direct response to automation wiping out alot of jobs in the near future. Jobs that used to reliable in the past (like truck drivers).

In a way, idumb is a good example why I know Andrew Yang will never be taken seriously, because most people dont actually bother to read what UBI really means but just make a knee-jerk reaction.

[iDumb]

Originally Posted by Yankees

In a way, idumb is a good example why I know Andrew Yang will never be taken seriously, because most people dont actually bother to read what UBI really means but just make a knee-jerk reaction.

No. I know a lot more than you and what I possess better than you is an ability to analyze and not regurgitate others ideas. There have been small scale study on basic income. It doesn't work. Even then the studies have to taken in context of many other factors. US with its 300 million + population needs cut in expenditure not expand. There are circumstances where basic income will not be enough. Some one has to pay for it.

And I also understand human behavior and the 3rd class mentality. For countries with large population, UBI is a bad idea in my opinion. It may work in smaller rich countries.

Next time don't talk out of your *** and throw dumb opinions as fact. Its an idea and it can be analyzed with data and an educated hypotheis can be made. Automation is taking away jobs but it is still at its infancy to have widespread unemployment. Other jobs will be created. It is not so black and white. You only expose what a chagol you are repeatedly making dumb assupmtions about everyone here.

[iDumb]

the pretentious tone in this guy with nothing to back up is just astounding.

[mufi_02]

$15/hr seems a bit for me for an entry level unskilled labor. so any high school or college kid with no skills and on their first job will automatically make $15/hr?

I agree that individuals with dependents who are in service industry or low skill workplaces, who needs to provide for their family, need to make that to survive and have a decent life. but the caveat is they have working for number of years and gained some experience and thus deserves $15/hr and more.

on a related note, I was making $7.15/hr in my first job in NYC.

[ToBeFair]

US is a captalist country founded on the principle of capital stealing for an elite class. This capital stealing happens in two forms: land stealing (explains the westward expansion of US and formation of a continental country) and labor exploitation (from slavery to prison labor to stagnating minimum wage since 80s despite productivity increase). And from the very beginning US army was founded to protect this capitalist pursuit of happiness of the elite class. Crumbs left for the general mass was advertised as American Dream, and this dream was somewhat true due to FDR's progressive policies, and lasted until Reagan.

Now a country founded to steal capital and having 200+ years of experience in this regard will not be easy to change. $15 minimum wage puts a chain on capitalism whereas the elites want unfettered capitalism.

[iDumb]

Originally Posted by ToBeFair
US is a capitalist country founded on the principle of capital stealing for an elite class.. {snipped]

i have to admit you have a very interesting way of putting things. it's good to read. But before going after US' hungry capitalism that has given birth to technological advancement and innovation for over 200 years, can you give me some example of a country where they are doing it right which hasn't backfired ?

You can talk all you want about behemeths but it is also in the USA where some guy in a garage with nothing but a vision and a desire to have more took over and smashed powerful corporate like walmart. Yes talking about amazon. It is because of capitalism I can lie in my bed in a bad cold weather and order something i need that gets to me within 10 hours from some 900 miles away. Many hungry capitalist players are involved all working together in this simple transaction and efficiency and behind it are supporting many Jobs.

Take away a man's potential to have a bread instead of more crumbs you will see how innovation flies out the window.

[iDumb]

Originally Posted by mufi_02
$15/hr seems a bit for me for an entry level unskilled labor. so any high school or college kid with no skills and on their first job will automatically make $15/hr?

on a related note, I was making $7.15/hr in my first job in NYC.

No high school or college degree required. Anyone will get this minimum salary. This is a problem for the entry level jobs where u needed that college degree because they are now making almost the same - maybe few dollars more but now has to carry the burden of higher cost of goods.

And should this current trade war with China goes full force the cost of goods will be so high these lower income will struggle to pay for their basic needs.

No matter what you say, ppl still working minimum wage in the united states still carry a $1000 iphone in their pocket which is a luxury in most of the world.

anyways, i earned 5.25 an hour in a summer job. It was good money

[iDumb]

^^btw having said all these, $15 an hour is not a lot of money in my opinion - but just trying to discuss some negative consequences this has. I am not sure if it solves anything. I don't think a salary increase from $10/hr to $15/hr makes any difference for someone who was gonna use the platform United states provide to climb up the social ladder anyway. Minimum wag worker will still struggle. Being happy with this is poor man's mentality.

If anything this is a fail in my opinion. Back in the days, working in mcdonalds was a summer job for responsible teen. A temporary gig. Now they are making all these work - a lifelong soul crushing "career". If one is happy with this - good for them.

[ToBeFair]

I am not against capitalism, what I am against is unfettered capitalism, the pinnacle of which is extreme neo liberalism and corporatocracy. You have a government to GOVERN and have power over everything under it's jurisdiction in order to serve and protect the interest of people. If that power is denied to the government, or when corporations buy the government, government becomes the tool of tyranny over the majority and corporations become the real government.

Is capitalism the sole reason for technological advancement? Not necessarily. Many major research has happened and is happening with government funding, be it the defense contractors or drug companies. These same companies then sell their products, which they invent using public money, at exorbitant price and government becomes helpless because of copyright and propriety. Therefore, it can be argued that technological advancement can happen without unfettered capitalism and with social progressive policies too. As Dr. Jill Stein argues, if today all student loan debts are pardoned, it will unleash a great human potential in the area of research, but capitalism is holding them back and forcing them to work minimum wage jobs for their whole lives for a couple of billon dollars.

Today I came across an article at PA that explained with a good example why there should be rules in a market:

বাজার মানেই পণ্যের পসরা। বাজারে পণ্যের বৈচিত্র্য যেমন থাকে, তেমনি থাকে পণ্য বিপণনের হাজার ধারা। একই পণ্য কেউ বেচে সুরম্য দালানে বসে, কেউ বেচে পথের ধারে ছোট্ট দোকানে বসে, আবার কেউ পণ্য নিয়ে হাজির হয় ক্রেতার দ্বারে দ্বারে। বিচিত্র সব পণ্যের ততোধিক বিচিত্র বিপণন পন্থা—এই সব নিয়েই বাজার। খেলার মতোই এই বাজারে থাকে প্রতিযোগিতা। আর প্রতিযোগিতা মানেই নিয়ম, না হলে মাৎস্যন্যায়ই একমাত্র পরিণতি, যা কখনো কাম্য নয়।

ফুটবল খেলার কথাই ধরা যাক। ফুটবলকে বলা হয় গোলের খেলা। সাদা চোখে বিষয়টা ঠিক আছে। কিন্তু এই কথাটিকেই একমাত্র সত্য ধরে নিলে, ফুটবল খেলা কুস্তিতে পরিণত হতে সময় লাগবে না। কারণ প্রতিটি পক্ষ তখন যেকোনো মূল্যে গোল করাটাকেই একমাত্র লক্ষ্য হিসেবে বিবেচনা করত। তেমনটি যেন না হয়, সে জন্য ফুটবল মাঠে অবধারিতভাবে প্রবেশ করতে হয় কিছু নিয়মের। আর এই নিয়মের সঙ্গে সঙ্গে প্রবেশ করতে হয় তার পাহারাদার রেফারির, যার কাজ হচ্ছে সব ধরনের ফাউলের পথ রোখা। এক কথায় খেলায় যেকোনো ধরনের অন্যায্যতা রোখাই রেফারির দায়িত্ব। এমন প্রতিটি খেলাতেই রয়েছে। আরও ভালোভাবে বললে প্রতিযোগিতা যেখানে, সেখানেই নিয়ম ও রেফারির উপস্থিতি স্বাভাবিক। বাজারের ক্ষেত্রেও তা-ই। এ ক্ষেত্রে প্রতিটি রাষ্ট্র নিজ নিজ বাজারে অন্যায্যতা রুখতে কিছু প্রতিষ্ঠান তৈরি করে, যাদের কাজ রেফারির মতোই। কেউ যেন ভাঁওতা দিয়ে অন্যকে বাজার থেকে হটিয়ে একচেটিয়া ব্যবসা করতে না পারে, অর্থাৎ প্রতিযোগিতার পরিবেশটি যেন বজায় থাকে, সে চেষ্টাই করে নিয়ন্ত্রক সংস্থা নামের এই রেফারি।

So we need rules and regulations. Otherwise you will have results like you have for example in California. Millions of empty homes and apartments available, and homeless popuplation is miniscule compared to empty home numbers, and yet, the price, instead of coming down, keeps increasing.

So, $15 minimum wage is a step in the right direction to curb unfettered capitalism. We may disagree about the wage and about it's consequence, but I hope we have no disagreement about government's power to regulate.

https://m.prothomalo.com/economy/art...�-কৌশল

[iDumb]

Originally Posted by ToBeFair

So, $15 minimum wage is a step in the right direction to curb unfettered capitalism. We may disagree about the wage and about it's consequence, but I hope we have no disagreement about government's power to regulate.

I agree with you that government has a role to carefully regulate to serve its people. Regulation can not be to an extent where it hinders innovation and growth.
In current world there are really no economic borders. It's one giant big market. Innovators will just move to the path of least resistance.

btw I only can read and understand very basic written bangla. That text u gave from prothom alo is way too complicated for my comprehension. But i did get one one sentence I think and the gist of it - that without a referee a soccer match would become a wrestling match

[al Furqaan]

Originally Posted by iDumb
i have to admit you have a very interesting way of putting things. it's good to read. But before going after US' hungry capitalism that has given birth to technological advancement and innovation for over 200 years, can you give me some example of a country where they are doing it right which hasn't backfired ?

Donald Trump asked why more people from Norway aren't moving to the United States. A Norwegian guy had a pretty simple answer. They have universal healthcare, don't get shot and killed in the thousands every year citing some archaic constitutional right.

There are maybe 500 billionaires on the entire planet. Thats far too few to justify a system without any checks and balances.