Shakib Al Hasan vs Ravi Ashwin - Better test all rounder?

[Jadukor]

Originally Posted by horizon
Not at all, that proves that Bangladesh also should do it. You seem to agree

India took home advantage concept to an ugly level. It was basically shameless tactics at a level that even Pakistan wouldnt do (and we know those folks would do anything to win including biting balls). Shameless tactics arent uncommon in the world of cricket. Usually when those things happen, such as the under arm ball by trevor chappel it pushes people to rethink the laws and make changes. This series might also result in such a law change regarding pitches. So congrats India! You win this round over Pakistan in terms of shameless desire to win.

As for us, we have a bit more dignity, we will take home advantage but wont push it to a shameless level even if we lose...rest assured we wont be opening threads in the India fans forum praising a bowler who needs crutches (a hyper dust bowl) to pick decent amount of wickets

But really... as Austin would point out...who are we to complain? India produces 90% of the revenue and so we should be grateful India isnt making it mandatory to make 90% of away pitches to be prepared by indian curators.

[horizon]

Originally Posted by Jadukor
India took home advantage concept to an ugly level. It was basically shameless tactics at a level that even Pakistan wouldnt do (and we know those folks would do anything to win including biting balls). Shameless tactics arent uncommon in the world of cricket. Usually when those things happen, such as the under arm ball by trevor chappel it pushes people to rethink the laws and make changes. This series might also result in such a law change regarding pitches. So congrats India! You win this round over Pakistan in terms of shameless desire to win.

As for us, we have a bit more dignity, we will take home advantage but wont push it to a shameless level even if we lose...rest assured we wont be opening threads in the India fans forum praising a bowler who needs crutches (a hyper dust bowl) to pick decent amount of wickets

But really... as Austin would point out...who are we to complain? India produces 90% of the revenue and so we should be grateful India isnt making it mandatory to make 90% of away pitches to be prepared by indian curators.

I am no defender of Indian pitches in Nagpur and probably Mohali. But, linking Ashwin success to that is unfair. Ashwin got loads of wickets against SL and Bangladesh outside India and better pitches in India.

What's your opinion on SL complain on NZ pitch?
http://www.espncricinfo.com/new-zeal...ry/952645.html

[Vepu]

I would take shameless wins over 6-79 record. BCB needs to grow a spine and follow India. If white teams produce green mambas its sporting pitch, our batsmen are pathetic with no technique. But when their players cant play spin for jack then its unfair pitch. Loads of bullcrap. South Africa, new zea land doctoring pitches since my nappy days. I dont even count record in australian pitches. Bar that Nagpur pitch all other pitches were fine and Bangladesh should send that useless gamini to India for training.

[horizon]

Originally Posted by Vepu
I would take shameless wins over 6-79 record. BCB needs to grow a spine and follow India. If white teams produce green mambas its sporting pitch, our batsmen are pathetic with no technique. But when their players cant play spin for jack then its unfair pitch. Loads of bullcrap. South Africa, new zea land doctoring pitches since my nappy days. I dont even count record in australian pitches. Bar that Nagpur pitch all other pitches were fine and Bangladesh should send that useless gamini to India for training.

The same stuff I'm trying to highlight.

[NoName]

Don't really see the problem in pitch doctoring, every home team prepares pitches that would suit their bowling. Granted, India did take it the extreme with the Nagpur pitch but the other pitches were fine and it was just a lack of technique on Saffer's parts to bat well in those conditions. Lets not forget India also put up some low scores, only difference is they had 2-3 quality spinners and if the Saffers even had just one they would have been able to probably win a test or two.

Anyways, we're probably the only team that does not prepare pitches to our strength and instead go with flat ones to secure a draw, its just a self-belief/confidence issue. We probably have it in ourselves to beat any non-SC team at home if we prepared/doctored the sort of pitches found in India, UAE and SL. And trust me, once the wins start coming we won't be criticizing others for their pitches. It is also one of the reasons Shakib home stats are poor compared to other SC spinners at home, they get good wickets, while Shakib bowls on flat roads.

[Austin 3:!6]

Originally Posted by mufi_02
lol it sounds so great when you say it like that. just right before 2015, India lost the tests in Aus. India played only 1 away test in the entire 2015 and that too was against BD. The other 7 test matches were all at home. Lost 1 against SL and then that abnormal series against SA where pitches were so poor that everyone (excluding Shastri) and even ICC themselves complained.

anyway we showed the world that we can compete very well in limited overs overseas. and we proved it no small way but on the biggest stage possible. we kicked England out fair and square and so your 'honest fact' of BD coming down to 9th ranking, if they play overseas, has so merit.

but you are right. Shakib is nothing compared to sir Ravichandran.

Errr...no.

India played 7 test matches away in 2015. 3 in Aust,1 in BD, 3 in SL.

Only lost the Brisbane test, drawn in Sydney and MCG. Would have won in BD if not for rain. Went on to win the series in SL handsdown.

Whitewashed SA at home. Even though its at home you cannot ignore the performance since it is against the no.1 test team in the world. A team which was undefeated away from home for 10 straight years.

India had a heck of a year in 2015 as far as tests is concerned and hence we are rightly ranked 2 test team in the world.

We just need bit polishing in our LOI sides and kick out few oldies from the team.

[Austin 3:!6]

Originally Posted by Jadukor
India took home advantage concept to an ugly level. It was basically shameless tactics at a level that even Pakistan wouldnt do (and we know those folks would do anything to win including biting balls). Shameless tactics arent uncommon in the world of cricket. Usually when those things happen, such as the under arm ball by trevor chappel it pushes people to rethink the laws and make changes. This series might also result in such a law change regarding pitches. So congrats India! You win this round over Pakistan in terms of shameless desire to win.

As for us, we have a bit more dignity, we will take home advantage but wont push it to a shameless level even if we lose...rest assured we wont be opening threads in the India fans forum praising a bowler who needs crutches (a hyper dust bowl) to pick decent amount of wickets

But really... as Austin would point out...who are we to complain? India produces 90% of the revenue and so we should be grateful India isnt making it mandatory to make 90% of away pitches to be prepared by indian curators.

Its not about revenue, its rather incompetence. Its very easy to point out anything good in Indian cricket by saying: "Well board has money and they can do anything". That is definitely not the case.

Every team in the world prepare pitches which suits the home side. In 2014 when we toured England, the 4th and 5th test match got over in 3 days. Infact the 5th test in Oval got over in 2.5 days. Everyone mocked then about Indian batsmen incompetence of playing seam bowling and not blamed the pitch. We also agreed and accepted the defeat like a man.

Now when a foreign team tours India and we prepare turners, should we not say SA batsmen are incompetent of playing spin? Rather we choose to blame the pitch for their defeat. Isn't it a plain hypocricy?

As far as Bangladesh team is concerned, the reason they prepare flat decks becuase that gives them the best chance of securing a draw. No one is stopping BCB to prepare turners but they do not do that because they are aware their own batsman have to bat in that track. No way BD can beat any top 6 test team in a turner or pitch with bit of a grass. Dont be dilluded by thinking BD intentionally do not take home advantage. Its just that they are afraid if they prepare pitch based on the home advantage it might backfire on them. A flat deck assures a draw.

Personally speaking, I would take a square turner than a flat pancake pitch anyday with 5 days of meaningless batting and a draw in the end.

Now as far as Ashwin is concerned, if you think he is picking his wickets only due to turners you need to re think. Not sure if you have watched him bowl in SL where the pitches were very sporting and he was the highest wicket taker there too. He made ATG Sangakarra look like a dud in his farewell series.

[aklemalp]

Thread took a tangent of epic proportions...

.have a Jingo doing what he loves doing the best...

[Modad]

Originally Posted by Austin 3:!6
Every team in the world prepare pitches which suits the home side. In 2014 when we toured England, the 4th and 5th test match got over in 3 days. Infact the 5th test in Oval got over in 2.5 days.

Are these the same test matches where England whacked your mighty bowling line up and scored 500+ runs each time and made indian batting gods bat twice after enforcing the follow-on on the same pitch?

[Jadukor]

I am not against turners or having green tops. I remember Harbhajan wrecking havoc on Steve Waugh touring side ages ago. That was entertaining as hell. I also remember the famous couter attack by Dravid and Laxman after followon. Could they have done the same in Nagpur? No because the pitch was extreme.

Obviously bowling sides would choose to play on pitches depending on their bowling strength in either pace or spin. The pitch can offer turn that is OK but to see it explode on the first day like its not a cricket ball but a grenade is a different scenario. We are talking about a five day game here and the pitches should last till the 5 th day regardless of what kind of pitch it is. As for Ashwin he is a good bowler but there are better bowlers in world cricket who didnt get the kind of help he did in 2015. I think Axar Patel or Saqlain Shajib is better.

[Zeeshan]

crickman er effigy purate purry ki?

[icricket]

Just voted.

Shakib >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ravi.

There is no question about it. #Fact

Oh, btw, last time when I checked, it's a banglaricket forum, not an indiacricket forum.

[cricman]

Shakibs bowling has regressed in Tests. I don't think we'll ever see the Pre 2013 version of Shakib

While he's not the batsmen that Shakib is, he's batted very well in high leverage situations.

Ashwin is a geniune Match Winner, won a MOS in Sri Lanka. He doesn't need a raging turner to be effective, a slowpitch will suffice. Saw it in the one off Test match we had here.

It'll be intresting to see his 2nd Tours of SA and England but I suspect he'll be fine. He will be a handful because of the bounce coupled by the sharp turn

[Tigers_eye]

Ashwin was the only slot open to change.

[Roey Haque]

Shakib is way better than Ashloss. Mops the floor with Ashloss. Ashloss is basically a bowler who can hit a little bit. Shakib on the other hand is a genuine all rounder, who belongs in the same conversation as the other all time great all rounders. To compare Ashloss with Shakib is quite frankly very disrespectful to Shakib.

[Zeeshan]

sakeb jodi etoi pare tahole kalke wicket nite bertho holo kano?

[Austin 3:!6]

BUMP -

Bondhura bhalo to...fatafati.

Ashwin is now rank 1 all rounder replacing Shakib Al Hassan. Your truly predicted it long time ago and proved right again. Ki Moja

Top 5 ICC test All-rounders:

Rank 1: Ashwin - (Rating 427)
Rank 2: Shakib - (Rating 384)
Rank 3: Philander - (Rating 275)
Rank 4: Broad - (Rating 275)
Rank 5 - Stokes - (Rating 270)

Ashwin is also rank 1 test bowler.

Top 5 ICC test bowler

Rank 1: Ashwin - (Rating 876)
Rank 2: Jimmy - (Rating 875)
Rank 3: Broad - (Rating 852)
Rank 4: Steyn - (Rating 841)
Rank 5 - Shah - (Rating 832)


Bottom-line:- ASHWIN >>> SHAKIB

Austin proven correct again

[aklemalp]

I thought this thread was locked.
Ashwin congrats. Saw this coming.

[Austin 3:!6]

Hey Aklemalp - Look at the poll results

[aklemalp]

Originally Posted by Austin 3:!6
Hey Aklemalp - Look at the poll results

Austin dost, poll ended long time ago. This is updated stuff...I see India's intent with sending Ashwin up the order, it allows them to play an additional bowler or batsman, depending on the conditions.

This might be the brainchild move by Anil Kumble...

[tiger1000]

Shakib is clearly better

But ashwin deserves to be ranked number 1, don't see Shakib taking it back either, just don't get to play

[RazabQ]

On present form, Ashwin, Woakes and Stokes are better all-rounders than Shakib. And with us in Test purgatory and Shak being mostly a "khep" T20 player, I don't see anything changing, ranking wise.

[Tigers_eye]

So an arm bending wanna be becomes #1. The real # 1 is not bowling at all (Taskin). Irony.

[Rifat]

It's not fair to Shakib al Hasan that Bangladesh gets hiatus from Tests for more than 12 months(appalling!!).. also echo what Razab said.

[simon]

Ashwin is doing very well, good for him good for India.

I feel sorry for Sakib, we rarely play tests, he could hv achieved a lot more by now.