Damn it, Bashar (Mod: The Official Bashar Bashing Thread -other merged here)

[shaoun]

the fact is bashar will remain captain. bcb wouldnt dare change him with another captain anytime soon. we cannot afford a captain like saurov ganguly(good captain sucks as a player) we just simply cant afford that. we need a captain who can perform and has enough experience to lead the team. beside bashar only two people can become the captain and one is rafique. rafique has enough experience as a player and his place in the team is stable. but i dont think rafique is captain material which is why he was never considered for the job. and other is khaled mashud. he is the most underated player in the team and played great innins for our team many many times. when he was the captain he also lead from the front. but the team didnt perform well at all. he was also faced with disciplinery problems. beside them two non of the young guys should be tried to lead the team any time soon. rajin was tried well we all know how that turned out to be. now he doesnt even make it to top 11. nafees masrafee shariar nafees has chance to be the captain but they are just too young.so for now bashar is the best choice that we have. and unless something dramatic happens i dont think he will lose captaincy position until 2007 world cup.

[rafiq]

from the DS today:

"I'm going to meet my brother in the US after eight years. This is also the first time I will not go home straight after a series. But I'm sure the 14 hour flight back will not be as boring as they usually have been for the most of my teammates," said Bashar.


where does his brother live - some of you can drive to his house and personally ask habibul to quit....

[Up_From_The_Underground]

Whether we like it or not, he is our BD captain. He can't make everyone happy every time. I don't see any other player in the team to be a captain any time soon. He is not doing a bad job. Nobody wants to do bad on the filed. Considering a young team, there will be a long learning curve. So be patient... Tigers will roar again and agian....

[Ahmed_B]

Bashar is not a very aggressive captain.... that's true. But at times our bowling is letting us down too very much! And Bashar or any other captain can't solve that. In this way.... Bashar is having to take more blame then what he actually deserves (like... bad fielding placement or bad bowling rotation in some matches).

[oracle]

Habibul Bashar needs to look closely at the slip fielding and the matter of who gets to stand where. Too many times fielders at the wrong spot or at the wrong time. This is a an aspect of his captaincy that can be corrected without too much fuss.
However, as a captain he is the best choice for the time being as the others are simply not up to it, even some of the young guns. I just feel that Nafis Iqbal will be a cap someday for sure - don´t know when?

But nevertheless another worrying issue.

[BangladeshFan]

even though, cricket is not played in research papers, i will try to answer to some of your so called points. u r probably the one who tries to use lots of references and statistics to his own advantage. but one should know stats can be used in the way that one presents it.

if u have read my post carefully, i didnt present rafiq case strongly, but pilot more. the reason is bashar should not be able to get away simply because "there is no alternative". it will give out a wrong message. i tend to think u have figured that out as well, but well who wants to give up his stand??:P

u may have played lot of "competitive" cricket but when u speak out of your "sense" u tend not to show it. gloves work is too draining to be a captain<< a wk is 1 in 11 in a team, but there are lot more instances of wk captain than it should be(>8%) do u think all those wk were bad as captain? what do u think is the difference between captain and vicecaptain? anyone can go the captain and suggest, doesnt have to a vc to do it.

at the moment i think pilot is the best alternative for bashar. what is the use of reading so called probe reports? bd did terribly in WC because the whole team played poorly(lost to canada) not because of pilot only.
we tend to find scapegoats, bashar is certainly not a scapegoat because the tournament was some sort of success. against him the complaints are well thought oout and came from best heads of the game(botham, holding and co).

as i said he cant avoid responsibilty by saying he doesnt have the say. >>rana should be selected when conditions suit him<< well u preety much figured it out there like your dibbly dobbler shujon in "expected rain". who will doubt that rana is a better bowler than chacha or nazmul except some dreadful "rana haters"? india did try 3 pacers in england but the only test they won there was when they tried 2 spinners and 2 pacers. but surely indian pacers are lot better and experienced than bd pacers.

i think your bottom line is bashar should be there as there is no alternative and as i said at the start of the thread, that wont be the right decison. bd should go for pilot as captain. but i doubt it, bcb doesnt have the guts to make strong decisions just like bashar.

[RazabQ]

Originally posted by BangladeshFan
even though, cricket is not played in research papers,

Buck (Aus coach) would beg to differ.

u r probably the one who tries to use lots of references and statistics to his own advantage. but one should know stats can be used in the way that one presents it.

Well than why don't you dig some up and show me?

if u have read my post carefully, i didnt present rafiq case strongly

The very fact you present it shows you know not what you speak of

, but pilot more. the reason is bashar should not be able to get away simply because "there is no alternative". it will give out a wrong message. i tend to think u have figured that out as well, but well who wants to give up his stand??:P

And I've already pointed out the fallacy of your argument from a management pov

u may have played lot of "competitive" cricket but when u speak out of your "sense" u tend not to show it. gloves work is too draining to be a captain<< a wk is 1 in 11 in a team, but there are lot more instances of wk captain than it should be(>8%) do u think all those wk were bad as captain? what do u think is the difference between captain and vicecaptain? anyone can go the captain and suggest, doesnt have to a vc to do it.

Again, show me the data. Or give instances of your playing days. I can.

at the moment i think pilot is the best alternative for bashar. what is the use of reading so called probe reports? bd did terribly in WC because the whole team played poorly(lost to canada) not because of pilot only.we tend to find scapegoats,

This tells me you are unwilling to put in the hard work to back up your assertions. If you had read the report you would have known that Pilot was NOT being made the scapegoat. Again, go read the report and then come and talk to me about Pilot as a skipper.

best heads of the game(botham, holding and co).

And none of these gentleman were succesful captains. They are talking heads. I've already given an example of Mr. expert, Hussain's captaincy fallacy. You so far have failed to give any specific exampls or data. FYI, you don't notice any of Bangladesh's retired players calling for Bashar's head or complaining. Perhaps they know something that you and I don't.

[BangladeshFan]

Originally posted by RazabQ
Buck (Aus coach) would beg to differ.

u r talking about someone who is coach of the no.1 side in the world. even though he doesnt write research papers but his ideas are sometimes laughed at "Ambidextrous players".

Well than why don't you dig some up and show me?

the mere fact of the number of wk captains (>8%) show they usually are good readers of the game and thus make good captains.

And I've already pointed out the fallacy of your argument from a management pov

i havent seen any argument in your post so far .

Again, show me the data. Or give instances of your playing days. I can.

show you data of what? how many test innings u need to play to know u dont have to be a vc to suggest to captain on the field?:P

And none of these gentleman were succesful captains. They are talking heads. I've already given an example of Mr. expert, Hussain's captaincy fallacy. You so far have failed to give any specific exampls or data. FYI, you don't notice any of Bangladesh's retired players calling for Bashar's head or complaining. Perhaps they know something that you and I don't.

well if botham, holding or hussain are just talking heads and u think ex bangladeshi players are more credible than them(u r assuming their silence as positive) i have nothing more to say


Edited on, July 2, 2005, 1:34 AM GMT, by reverse_swing.
Reason: Deleted last paragraph. There are ways to express yourself without insulting people. Please be respectul to the differing opinion

[deshpremi]

Just because some of us want our captain to be more agressive in the field when there is a chance of winning a match do not make us "Basher haters"
Some people in this forum are too emotional and sometimes appear very immature in their responses .
If you do not agree with some one's perception of the appropriate tactics that should have been used in the middle, according to the circumstances of the match at a crucial juncture, then just say you disagree.
There is no need to start ranting and raving like a lunatic to convey a simple or valid point.

[Zunaid]

Originally posted by deshpremi
Just because some of us want our captain to be more agressive in the field when there is a chance of winning a match do not make us "Basher haters"
Some people in this forum are too emotional and sometimes appear very immature in their responses .
If you do not agree with some one's perception of the appropriate tactics that should have been used in the middle, according to the circumstances of the match at a crucial juncture, then just say you disagree.
There is no need to start ranting and raving like a lunatic to convey a simple or valid point.

Good point. The post above yours is a good example.

- as myself

Edited on, July 1, 2005, 11:31 PM GMT, by Zunaid.

[left-hander]

Originally posted by RazabQ
it never ceases to amaze me, the amount of vitriol directed at Bashar. Seriously, you guys should read between the lines of interviews of Dav and other players as well as Bashar. HB has tactical limitations - he was never groomed to be a captain, never skippered at any level before the nats - but that's only 30% of the job. 40% is ppl management and the other 30% on self performance. Bashar scores highly on these last two. The other 30% he's growing into. We always berate him for not being agressive or dynamic on the field - to that I say look at Hussain and his recent statement re Dav. Hussain with his conservative, nay -ve captaincy (e.g. Giles to Tendu's leg stump), built up this English squad, made them hard to beat, and allowed his matchwinners grow up. Now Vaughn is reaping the rewards. Bashar in that sense is a caretaker as well; he's there while the Ash, Aftab, Enam, Masree mature. As for the tactical stuff, he's growing onto it - perhaps his deference for Dav is actually a hindrance here; I can't believe him claiming that the last ODI was the 1st time he had to read the pitch and decide on strategy.

well said!! you really understand bangladeshi politics in cricket.

[Duck]

[quote]Originally posted by left-hander

Originally posted by RazabQ
................................. I can't believe him claiming that the last ODI was the 1st time he had to read the pitch and decide on strategy.

Oh my goodness............then for the next pitch to read we have to wait for another bad news from Dav's family so that he leaves the team at Bashar's hand!!!? Is it a good practice to groom our captain!!!?

_pion

[BangladeshFan]

well said deshpremi. hard to grasp what is the meaning of "bashar hater" or "rana lover". i like bashar's batting(sometimes) but critical of his captaincy. instead we may very well coin out phrases like "bashar lover" or "rana hater". dropping the best performing bowler for the least performing one, what else can you say?