Our batting

[BengaliPagol]

Originally Posted by M.H.Rubel
I know Nazimuddin is a very poor batsman with very limited ability. When he was selected in the team i was totally astonished watching his name. But he did reasonably well against Pakistan. In 2 tests he made 121 runs with an average of 30, which is not bad. He played total 313 balls that is very important. That means he can occupy the crease.
To survive in tests cricket first criteria is occupy the crease. Nazimuddin can leave deliveries outside the off stump which is a rare criteria for our batsman.
I know he is a crap but as he have done reasonably well job he deserve another series.

spot on.

[jeesh]

Its a mystery we need to solve. Many of our main batsmen dont even average 30 in FC cricket. The big innings mentality is just not there.

In India in contrast even batsmen on the fringes average close to 50 in FC. Consider their new boy Pujara. The guys a run machine in FC with an average of 55. Remember Hrishikesh Kanitkar the guy who hit Saqlain for a 4 in a triangular tournament in Dhaka? Even he has retired with a FC average of 53. Now he wouldnt even make it to India B a few years back.

There is something that is wrong with most of our batsmen. Patience, determination, technique, shot selection. Whatever it is cannot be solved by the national team coach. These are things that need to be sorted early, as early as school cricket. Any test batsman must have at least an average of 40 in FC cricket. There is a huge gulf between international cricket and first class cricket. But you cant go to Uni unless you do well in school right.

[Gowza]

Originally Posted by jeesh
Its a mystery we need to solve. Many of our main batsmen dont even average 30 in FC cricket. The big innings mentality is just not there.

In India in contrast even batsmen on the fringes average close to 50 in FC. Consider their new boy Pujara. The guys a run machine in FC with an average of 55. Remember Hrishikesh Kanitkar the guy who hit Saqlain for a 4 in a triangular tournament in Dhaka? Even he has retired with a FC average of 53. Now he wouldnt even make it to India B a few years back.

There is something that is wrong with most of our batsmen. Patience, determination, technique, shot selection. Whatever it is cannot be solved by the national team coach. These are things that need to be sorted early, as early as school cricket. Any test batsman must have at least an average of 40 in FC cricket. There is a huge gulf between international cricket and first class cricket. But you cant go to Uni unless you do well in school right.

you make a good point about fringe players averaging 50 or near 50 but really india is the only country that has a number of players averaging 50 or over 50 who aren't in their team. australia use to have it but don't anymore, but atm outside india i don't think any country has fringe players as prolific as the ones in india.

[Sohel]

Originally Posted by M.H.Rubel
A big no to Ash. A player who don't want to stay in the crease or can't play big innings in test cricket is just a no to him. Junaid is a good option to me. I want to open with him.
Though Nazimuddin is a crap but dropping him from test will be just a sin. ...

Are you serious? How can dropping a "crap" player from the NATIONAL team (not a family owned or neighborhood club of part-timers) be a "sin"? How can you conclude that he has the ability to "stay in the crease" from just ONE performance under extremely favorable conditions (78 from 183)? Going by that deeply flawed and somewhat laughable logic, Mohammad Ashraful Motin, a player with far better ability sight the ball, footwork and overall batting ability should play for us until hell freezes over because he has had better success in tests (114 from 212, 158* from 194, 136 from 184, 129* from 236, 101 from 193, 98 from 181, 81 from 224, 77 from 201, 75 from 120, 73 from 158, 67 from 189, 67 from 41, 60* from 135).

How about all of the other times when Nazimuddin couldn't "stay in the crease" (31 from 79, 0 from 6, and 12 from 42)? You do realize that test batting is harder because bowlers get to bowl without field restrictions under a variety of conditions, not just the NCL ones, right? You do realize that it's not just about "batting slowly" and that you still have to put runs on the board under those conditions, right? Do you honestly think a "crap" player with appalling footwork, fragile character and without the ability to sight the ball early will survive in test cricket in bowler friendly conditions? If not, then why is leaving him out a "sin"? Does real-life cricketing context even matter anymore when decontexualized stats are used to advocate a weird agenda?

Have a little respect for the national team and our intelligence, please!

[jeesh]

Originally Posted by Gowza
you make a good point about fringe players averaging 50 or near 50 but really india is the only country that has a number of players averaging 50 or over 50 who aren't in their team. australia use to have it but don't anymore, but atm outside india i don't think any country has fringe players as prolific as the ones in india.

Agree Gowza. Perhaps its the nature of wickets there that makes run scoring so easy in India. But you also got to give them credit. They have the knack of producing very technically sound, run scoring machines.

Some of the Zimbabwean batsmen have very health FC averages. If you look at some of the teams closer to us in ranking-NZ, WI, Sri Lanka, they too have prolific run scorers. I am not talking abt the old guards. For instance in Sri Lanka (Apart from Dilshan, Sanga, Jayawardene) some of the emerging guys have outstanding FC record. Chandimal averages 55, Mathews close to 50, Thirimane over 40.

A lot of ppl say we need sporting wickets to develop our batting. But if our guys cant average 40 in placid wickets, how can they in more grassy bouncy wickets?

[Gowza]

Originally Posted by jeesh
Agree Gowza. Perhaps its the nature of wickets there that makes run scoring so easy in India. But you also got to give them credit. They have the knack of producing very technically sound, run scoring machines.

Some of the Zimbabwean batsmen have very health FC averages. If you look at some of the teams closer to us in ranking-NZ, WI, Sri Lanka, they too have prolific run scorers. I am not talking abt the old guards. For instance in Sri Lanka (Apart from Dilshan, Sanga, Jayawardene) some of the emerging guys have outstanding FC record. Chandimal averages 55, Mathews close to 50, Thirimane over 40.

A lot of ppl say we need sporting wickets to develop our batting. But if our guys cant average 40 in placid wickets, how can they in more grassy bouncy wickets?

yes some emerging players do have great FC records even outside india but india has a lot, if you were to list all of the players in india who aren't in the national team/squad who average over 40 in FC cricket that list would be huge. there might be 2 or 3 from other countries but the list wouldn't be anywhere near as big as a list india could make. you mentioned 3 great emerging sri lankan players, they're all currently in the squad for the national team though, so who outside of them and the squad have such great averages? probably not to many. india certainly has a knack for producing batting talent even if as you say the nature of their wickets makes scoring runs easier.

[jeesh]

Not a lot to be honest. In a couple of years, Sri Lanka has to replace the likes of Sangakara, Mahela, Dilshan, Samaraweera. No mean feat. All these guys have exemplary records. But Sri Lanka cricket is confident they can. They replaced guys like De Silva, Rantunga, they know they will replace their current legends.

3-4 players are likely to take over the run scoring mantle-Chandimal, Thirimane, Munaweera (One of the highest scorers of SLPL) and Matthews. All of them are by no means more talented and skilled than our batsmen. But for some reason they mature and develop better than our guys.

[Gowza]

matthews for a long time has been one of the ones expected to take over, chandimal for a couple of years has also been in that category, i think it was mahela who said he would score over 10,000 test runs and this was before he had played a test match. thirimanne has a really solid FC average in the 40s and whenever i've seen him play he's looked good, well balanced, talented so i expect he will come good. munaweera hasn't got the most impressive record, his strike rate stands out but he'll need to get more consistent.

[shuziburo]

This is very ATMR like. Short and incisive. Right now our batting and pace bowling are the biggest problems.

Originally Posted by AsifTheManRahman
I saw the thread title "Our batting" and immediately, the one word response that came to mind was "SUCKS".

[shuziburo]

Originally Posted by Tiger444
The problem with Mushy is that he has to worry about keeping and batting. Now he has captaincy to worry about. His potential as a batsman in the Test level won't be fulfilled if he continues to be a keeper in Tests. I feel it's better he takes the gloves off for Tests and bring Dhiman in who is the much better gloveman. Dhiman's done pretty well with the bat in FC's the past year. So we could give him a try. England, SA, and SL have used a Test match wicketkeeper and it's worked well.

I have been advocating for Mushy to be played only as a specialist batsman for quite some time. His batting should improve and he will not drop those obligatory catches.

[Tiger444]

Originally Posted by jeesh
Agree Gowza. Perhaps its the nature of wickets there that makes run scoring so easy in India. But you also got to give them credit. They have the knack of producing very technically sound, run scoring machines.

Some of the Zimbabwean batsmen have very health FC averages. If you look at some of the teams closer to us in ranking-NZ, WI, Sri Lanka, they too have prolific run scorers. I am not talking abt the old guards. For instance in Sri Lanka (Apart from Dilshan, Sanga, Jayawardene) some of the emerging guys have outstanding FC record. Chandimal averages 55, Mathews close to 50, Thirimane over 40.

A lot of ppl say we need sporting wickets to develop our batting. But if our guys cant average 40 in placid wickets, how can they in more grassy bouncy wickets?

The pitches are so poorly made in BD that it makes it difficult for the batsmen to be able to score runs. Actually the pitches are so poor that they not even assist either the bowler or the batsmen. In India, on the other hand, they have very good well developed pitches. So it's hard to really blame our guys only. The curators need to at least build decent pitches if proper cricket is to be played.

[Tiger444]

Originally Posted by Sohel
Are you serious? How can dropping a "crap" player from the NATIONAL team (not a family owned or neighborhood club of part-timers) be a "sin"? How can you conclude that he has the ability to "stay in the crease" from just ONE performance under extremely favorable conditions (78 from 183)? Going by that deeply flawed and somewhat laughable logic, Mohammad Ashraful Motin, a player with far better ability sight the ball, footwork and overall batting ability should play for us until hell freezes over because he has had better success in tests (114 from 212, 158* from 194, 136 from 184, 129* from 236, 101 from 193, 98 from 181, 81 from 224, 77 from 201, 75 from 120, 73 from 158, 67 from 189, 67 from 41, 60* from 135).

How about all of the other times when Nazimuddin couldn't "stay in the crease" (31 from 79, 0 from 6, and 12 from 42)? You do realize that test batting is harder because bowlers get to bowl without field restrictions under a variety of conditions, not just the NCL ones, right? You do realize that it's not just about "batting slowly" and that you still have to put runs on the board under those conditions, right? Do you honestly think a "crap" player with appalling footwork, fragile character and without the ability to sight the ball early will survive in test cricket in bowler friendly conditions? If not, then why is leaving him out a "sin"? Does real-life cricketing context even matter anymore when decontexualized stats are used to advocate a weird agenda?

Have a little respect for the national team and our intelligence, please!

Agreed. People should realize the fact that Nazimuddin is not going to survive in Tests. It's not that he hasnt gotten chances already. He's had the opportunity to showcase his skills but he showed many times that his technique is not going to survive even in subcontinental conditions.

Ideally I think it's better to eventually give the #2 or 3 spot to Anamul. In the mean time I don't mind having Ash and Junaid in there.

[shuziburo]

I would not call Nazimuddin crap. Other batsmen without great technique have succeeded before and Nazimuddin might. I don't hold his 31 from 79 against him; it shows the proper temperament. BTW, his test average is 30.25 (albeit from 4 innings), the so-called "super talent" Ashraful's is 22.60. I wish we have better options, but Nazimuddin is one of the few who have the right temperament for tests, if not the technique. Until better options emerge, I am not against giving him a change. Perhaps, he will surprise us all. If a better test opener is found, we can always switch.

I am saying this with the utmost respect for the national team and the BC members.

Originally Posted by Sohel
Are you serious? How can dropping a "crap" player from the NATIONAL team (not a family owned or neighborhood club of part-timers) be a "sin"? How can you conclude that he has the ability to "stay in the crease" from just ONE performance under extremely favorable conditions (78 from 183)? Going by that deeply flawed and somewhat laughable logic, Mohammad Ashraful Motin, a player with far better ability sight the ball, footwork and overall batting ability should play for us until hell freezes over because he has had better success in tests (114 from 212, 158* from 194, 136 from 184, 129* from 236, 101 from 193, 98 from 181, 81 from 224, 77 from 201, 75 from 120, 73 from 158, 67 from 189, 67 from 41, 60* from 135).

How about all of the other times when Nazimuddin couldn't "stay in the crease" (31 from 79, 0 from 6, and 12 from 42)? You do realize that test batting is harder because bowlers get to bowl without field restrictions under a variety of conditions, not just the NCL ones, right? You do realize that it's not just about "batting slowly" and that you still have to put runs on the board under those conditions, right? Do you honestly think a "crap" player with appalling footwork, fragile character and without the ability to sight the ball early will survive in test cricket in bowler friendly conditions? If not, then why is leaving him out a "sin"? Does real-life cricketing context even matter anymore when decontexualized stats are used to advocate a weird agenda?

Have a little respect for the national team and our intelligence, please!

[jeesh]

Originally Posted by Tiger444
The pitches are so poorly made in BD that it makes it difficult for the batsmen to be able to score runs. Actually the pitches are so poor that they not even assist either the bowler or the batsmen. In India, on the other hand, they have very good well developed pitches. So it's hard to really blame our guys only. The curators need to at least build decent pitches if proper cricket is to be played.

Hehe well put. Dhaka wicket for example has very low bounce from day three onwards. There's some turn but nothing spectacular, its the uneven bounce that makes a difference. Bowlers best bet is to keep it straight and trap the batsman in front. This is a reason why SLA's do so well. Ctg is slightly better.

[Tiger444]

Originally Posted by shuziburo
I would not call Nazimuddin crap. Other batsmen without great technique have succeeded before and Nazimuddin might. I don't hold his 31 from 79 against him; it shows the proper temperament. BTW, his test average is 30.25 (albeit from 4 innings), the so-called "super talent" Ashraful's is 22.60. I wish we have better options, but Nazimuddin is one of the few who have the right temperament for tests, if not the technique. Until better options emerge, I am not against giving him a change. Perhaps, he will surprise us all. If a better test opener is found, we can always switch.

I am saying this with the utmost respect for the national team and the BC members.

I agree that you don't need to have "textbook" technique to be good in Test cricket but you need a decent technique at least. You see Dilshan and Sehwag doing well but they have such great hand eye coordination that they get away with poor footwork. Even then you see how they struggle outside of the subcontinent. I just don't see him having even close to that same hand eye coordination that could have him survive at this level and it has shown so far in his international career.

[M.H.Rubel]

Originally Posted by shuziburo
I would not call Nazimuddin crap. Other batsmen without great technique have succeeded before and Nazimuddin might. I don't hold his 31 from 79 against him; it shows the proper temperament. BTW, his test average is 30.25 (albeit from 4 innings), the so-called "super talent" Ashraful's is 22.60. I wish we have better options, but Nazimuddin is one of the few who have the right temperament for tests, if not the technique. Until better options emerge, I am not against giving him a change. Perhaps, he will surprise us all. If a better test opener is found, we can always switch.

I am saying this with the utmost respect for the national team and the BC members.

Agreed in every single point Suja Vai.
I do agree with you, playing a 22 average player in place of 30 is a funny idea to me. I ll pick Nazimuddin in every single day in place of Ash. Atleast Nazimuddin have the temperament.

[M.H.Rubel]

Originally Posted by Sohel
Are you serious? . . . .
Have a little respect for the national team and our intelligence, please!

Dear Sohel Vai, you are advocating for a player with 22 average after playing 57 test matches!!!!
I think i have some respect to the national team. That's why i want to replace this guy with average of 22 by another player.

[jeesh]

Btw is the career of Rajin Saleh over? Still 28 years old. Averages over 35 in FC. Never took off in test match cricket, but has the right mentality for the longer version. Cant we give him a shot, perhaps working under Pybus will help. This is another sad thing abt BD cricket. Players have premature ends to their careers. Big difference in India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka. Thilan Samaraweera is still going strong at 36, so is Misbah Ul Haq. Dilshan's career took off in 2009, just 3 years ago at the age of 32.

Not just Saleh, wish there is a way to resurrect the careers of guys like Shahriar Nafees, Nafis Iqbal, Ashraful, Aftab Ahmed etc. So much of talent there, and all of these guys are at an age where they are supposed to be at their prime. Its a pity we have wasted such talent, or rather the players never built on their talent.

[M.H.Rubel]

Originally Posted by Tiger444
I agree that you don't need to have "textbook" technique to be good in Test cricket but you need a decent technique at least. You see Dilshan and Sehwag doing well but they have such great hand eye coordination that they get away with poor footwork. Even then you see how they struggle outside of the subcontinent. I just don't see him having even close to that same hand eye coordination that could have him survive at this level and it has shown so far in his international career.

Suja Vai was basically comparing Ash and Nazimuddin. Ash is a proven failure in test cricket. On the other hand despite having poor technique still Nazimuddin has shown so far, he is better than Ash in test cricket. Temperament is more important than technique in test cricket.
You can not write Nazimuddin off so easily. His F C career is not bad. Most importantly his F C record with the A team is also not bad.Even his N C L career is better than Ash.

[simon]

So the talk of the thread is Nazimuddin.
Dont know how good or how bad he is but he just.played two test matches and he did pretty well.
So I believe it will be unfair to drop him,he should be given atleast two more test matches even if he fails..then we will talk.

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[Tiger444]

Originally Posted by M.H.Rubel
Suja Vai was basically comparing Ash and Nazimuddin. Ash is a proven failure in test cricket. On the other hand despite having poor technique still Nazimuddin has shown so far, he is better than Ash in test cricket. Temperament is more important than technique in test cricket.
You can not write Nazimuddin off so easily. His F C career is not bad. Most importantly his F C record with the A team is also not bad.Even his N C L career is better than Ash.

While temperament is very important in Test cricket, technique is far more important. If temperament was everything then Raqibul would be a good batsman but he hasn't at all because his technique isn't good. On the Dhaka wicket we saw the weakness of Nazim. Just a little bit of movement and he struggles to get in to position and play a shot.

Anyways I think we should try Anamul ahead of both Ash and Nazim because they aren't the answers and Anamul has a chance to become a star batsman for us. Might as well give it a shot.

[M.H.Rubel]

Originally Posted by jeesh
Btw is the career of Rajin Saleh over? Still 28 years old. Averages over 35 in FC. Never took off in test match cricket, but has the right mentality for the longer version. Cant we give him a shot, perhaps working under Pybus will help. This is another sad thing abt BD cricket. Players have premature ends to their careers. Big difference in India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka. Thilan Samaraweera is still going strong at 36, so is Misbah Ul Haq. Dilshan's career took off in 2009, just 3 years ago at the age of 32.

Not just Saleh, wish there is a way to resurrect the careers of guys like Shahriar Nafees, Nafis Iqbal, Ashraful, Aftab Ahmed etc. So much of talent there, and all of these guys are at an age where they are supposed to be at their prime. Its a pity we have wasted such talent, or rather the players never built on their talent.

I did not see Rajin playing anywhere recently. I liked this guy. He is a consistent performer in domestic F C. We are searching for 2/3 test batsman for long time. We tried Rock several times. To me Rajin was a better option than Rock. Probably getting too much bogged down is paying for Rajin

Really its a pity lots of Payers have premature end of their career. Most of our players come to National team prematurely without having proper testing through A team and this is the main cause behind premature end. This process is still going on.Recently Anamul played for national team. Was he tested properly? To me proper testing through the a team is a must.

[M.H.Rubel]

Originally Posted by simon
So the talk of the thread is Nazimuddin.
Dont know how good or how bad he is but he just.played two test matches and he did pretty well.
So I believe it will be unfair to drop him,he should be given atleast two more test matches even if he fails..then we will talk.

Posted via BC Mobile Edition (Android)

That is the point. So far he has done reasonably well. He deserve another series.
After watching playing in one day, dropping from test is a poor idea.

[Gowza]

rajin saleh was alright many years ago, but when he was given another chance we saw that although he had the temperament he struggled to make any runs, the only way that sought of innings is useful is if an opener plays it but the team still needs runs so it's not the best option. did look like he'd be decent when he was younger but the same can be said for guys like aftab, alok and ash.

[shams91]

Test Squad Should Include: Rajin Saleh (36.35), Mohammed Nazimuddin (38.64), Jahurul Islam (35.34)

-- In bracket, First Class averages --

1. Tamim Iqbal
2. Mohammed Nazimuddin
3. Jahurul Islam
4. Rajin Saleh
5. Shakib Al Hasan
6. Mahmudullah Riad
7. Mushfiqur Rahim
8. Mashrafe Bin Mortaza
9. Rubel Hossain
10. Elias Sunny
11. Abdur Razzak