Golf

[BANFAN]

Originally Posted by Arnab
I don't get all this hoopla about golf. On multiple levels. From a spectator's perspective, i.e., from "our" perspectives.

First, Golf is more boring than test cricket, if that is possible. And it's a gigantic waste of space. There are tens of millions of people in my country who are living in shantytowns. They could use a golf court or two, or maybe ten of them. Golf is for filthy rich bastards who have nothing else to do but kill a vast amount of space and a vast amount of time. Golf is a four-dimensional sin..

I disagree. A shot in golf takes some time, because they put in a lots of thoughts and perfection into the action to achieve the best result. A nick in cricket might get to boundary, but a nick in Golf will always take you OB or Hazards. It has to be perfect man. You have to have apetite for perfectionism to like Golf.

Originally Posted by Arnab
Second, Tiger Woods? Who is this guy? An athletic young black dude with the face of a Thai busboy? He is probably the only young guy in a sport that is predominantly played by cigar-smoking 50 year old obese white upper class folks with giant hanging man boobs on them. He looks so out of place that it's not even fair. Imagine a heavyweight boxer taking part in a brawl at an old home. Imagine Man U playing in the Dhaka football league. If this is not faka mathe goal mara, then I don't know what is. And where are the other black athletic dudes in golf? Oh right, they are actually in athletics, or in the NBA! Tiger sure picked the right sport to dominate.

Golf as I said is all about looking for perfection. That's why it generally develops over a period of time. Tiger was too young to attain perfection to compete with big boys. But if you have followed golf, almost all those Ranatuga/Goochy guys are playing since their young days. Still there are plenty of young boys play golf. But unlike most of other sports, in most of the tournaments you have to comethrough a preliminary round played all over. So we generally see the established players making it to the final rounds. Atheleticism is necessary but there are too many other things related with it to make a perfect shot. That's why experience gets an advantage in this game. So many young kids are crowding into golf these days is unbelieveable. One can only get better with age.

You will fall in love and get addicted if you learn to play. A golfer never stops playing golf until he dies. Golf is not only a sports, it's a sporting way of life man....

Hope I don't sound like giving lectures

[Arnab]

Sorry, but I think your argument stinks. Perfection? That's your argument? Which sport isn't a pursuit of perfection? Look, the same argument can be given for precision sports like snooker, billiard, carom, etc. The difference is they waste a lot less space and a lot less time.

And if Golf is the kind of game that takes time to perfect, then why aren't the veterans burying Tiger with their experience more often? Following that logic, we should see Els, Mickelson, etc. kill those drives and putts, and at least be in contention, in top 5 of every final round of a major. Why aren't they doing that?

My theory is that Golf is popular because it's backed by big corporations who put a lot of money in it. Money is always good. They also buy a lot of media time because of the money. I don't want to watch golf when I can watch a thousand times more exciting tennis match, or a 20/20 cricket match, or a football match, or just about any sport, because chances are it's much less boring and much less time consuming than watching golf. Seriously, as a viewer, what am I supposed to do when a golfer is thinking for 5 minutes about his next shot? And then strolling for another 5 minutes towards the ball. Sit in front of the TV like a moron?

And Tiger? Well he is American, that's the first thing. Americans always give enormous amount of media time on an American sporting hero. And if he is really good, like Tiger here, they go overboard. I remember how cycling was a big thing in the United States just a few years back, solely because of Lance Armstrong. I suspect now it has died down because an American is not dominating any more.

I intend to pick up Golf as well...probably when I am rich, fat, white and 50+, and when I can't run and think fast anymore.

[Tigers_eye]

Originally Posted by Arnab
And it's a gigantic waste of space. There are tens of millions of people in my country who are living in shantytowns. They could use a golf court or two, or maybe ten of them. Golf is for filthy rich bastards who have nothing else to do but kill a vast amount of space and a vast amount of time. Golf is a four-dimensional sin.

Arnab go join Mother Teresa's organization and use your God given Money, energy and brain wisely. What makes you different than a hypocrite?

[Arnab]

Originally Posted by Tigers_eye
Arnab go join Mother Teresa's organization and use your God given Money, energy and brain wisely. What makes you different than a hypocrite?

How so? I criticize golf, so I am a hypocrite? You golf fans are strange.

How can one even defend golf other than the money factor? Golf is a game that literally, yes, literally constitutes "a walk in the park" most of the time. You play a shot, it hits the fairway/rough/bunkers/whatever/who cares, then you light up a cigar, sip a little coffee, chat and joke with your caddy, take a walk in the park and then think hard for 5 minutes, then take your next shot, the wind carries it over to the wrong place. Whoops! Oh well, no worries, you take another walk in the park, listen to the chirping of the birds, take as much time as you can, look a little thoughtful, and make the next shot. What tension! What stress! What an adrenaline rush! At the end of the day, you get big bucks thanks to generous corporate sponsors. And a worldwide recognition because of TV channels that are owned by the same corporations. A very, very nice "sport" indeed.

I have got to give it to Tiger though. He is a classy showman. He doesn't need the muscles. He doesn't need the woohoos, nor the fist pumps. It's frigging golf. He just beat a 45 year old Rocco Mediate (who?) for a major, that too with a bad knee. That's as tough as it gets in golf. But he makes it look like it's a mighty struggle. It's as if he got elbowed in the face on the football pitch, as if a tennis ball is coming at him at 127 miles an hour, it's as if he did a full length dive and picked up a catch on a cricket field. He looks so thoughtful before a putt, as if he is playing chess, thinking about the next 5 moves and playing 3 opponents at a time. Truly exhilarating stuff.

[Tigers_eye]

Originally Posted by Arnab
How so? I criticize golf, so I am a hypocrite? You golf fans are strange...

No!! You criticized people for not doing the right thing. Which is, focusing on the poor and needy. All this when you yourself are not with the needy and poor. That is why you are no different than any rich.

Before asking anyone, be it a golf player, politician, Bill Gates, world leaders, we need to start doing the walk ourselves.

The rest of the stuff you said is not worth replying to. Obviously you have on understanding of the game of Golf. The best thing for you would be to go to a driving range or a course. Play a round. Come back and then criticise.

[Arnab]

Originally Posted by Tigers_eye
No!! You criticized people for not doing the right thing.

Not really. I criticized the game of golf because to me it seems a big waste of a spectator's time and a big waste of space in general. It truly is.

Which is, focusing on the poor and needy. All this when you yourself are not with the needy and poor.

What makes you think I am not with the needy and poor? Because I criticized golf?

The rest of the stuff you said is not worth replying to. Obviously you have on understanding of the game of Golf.

It's not rocket science, really. You have to put a ball in a hole in as few shots as possible. And I am talking from the perspective of a spectator.

The best thing for you would be to go to a driving range or a course. Play a round. Come back and then criticise.

Like I said, when I am fat, rich, white, 50+, can't think fast and can't run, I will definitely think about it.

[akabir77]

BTW Golf is not a sports. Please...

[Tigers_eye]

Originally Posted by Arnab
Not really. I criticized the game of golf because to me it seems a big waste of a spectator's time and a big waste of space in general. It truly is.

So is following cricket and typing in forums. All waste of money, space and time. The poor in your "desh'er bari" could use your able, strong two hands, wonderful intellect you possess, right about now. It's truely true.

Originally Posted by Arnab
What makes you think I am not with the needy and poor? Because I criticized golf?

So you are with Mother Teresa Organization (or similar type)? And still wasting your time here at BC? No conflict of interest?

Originally Posted by Arnab
It's not rocket science, really. You have to put a ball in a hole in as few shots as possible. And I am talking from the perspective of a spectator.

There are times when eyes deceive a person. This is one of them. There is more to it. Unless you try I can't change your perception.

Originally Posted by Arnab
Like I said, when I am fat, rich, white, 50+, can't think fast and can't run, I will definitely think about it.

Good luck on your pigment transformation. Presuming you are a dark skinned person.

[Tigers_eye]

Originally Posted by akabir77
BTW Golf is not a sports. Please...

Yes, yet some of the professionals can bench press you 20 reps, three times in a row.

[cricman]

Greatest Saturday I've ever seen, watching the highlights does it injustice. If you watched it live you'd be speechless. Tiger is golf if it wasn't for him I'd never watch it. Now that I've watched it for 8 years and understand it, makes you appreciate it even more.



Again Like I said Your Favorite Athlete < Tiger Woods

[SS]

The Great debaters....keep the forum alive...
I don't know how it happened though because I have to read each and every single quotes to find out the origination of this debate. But whoever iniatiated got a take lot of pride of making and justifying their arguments. I guess for Arnab, he might be right of how he perceives Golf a game. Golf is not for everybody. You won't be seeing a scientist having luxury playing Golf and take it as profession. So, per Arnab, Golf might be game only rich westerners can afford to play. So if we know that its for the rich, why bother following it or even criticizing it. How can you justify a sportsman making millions of dollars where intellectual society working rest of their lives without millions.
per TE bhai, the game is majestic and tiger woods made it a great interesting games. Nothing wrong with that. It is still a professional sport where players play different tournaments. The space is not an issue in big western countries, so why complain about this game which takes up spaces. If it is played in Dhaka, that's different. Also this majestic game requires majestic way of approaching the game with time to think like a majestic, walk like a rich, roam like a rich. Nothing wrong with that, who knows if TE or Arnab will be one of them one day probably they will forget about this discussion in BC cricket.

[akabir77]

SS bhai apner argument porlam but aita to rime korey na khubi khosto hoilo portey...

[akabir77]

Originally Posted by Tigers_eye
Yes, yet some of the professionals can bench press you 20 reps, three times in a row.

Hey I am not a sportsman whats with all these personal attacks!!! lol

Buchi ami T_E bhai bujei deshey ershader er shatey khelten ai golf...

Jotoi bench press koruk aita kono sports na. just like Karam board/billiard is not one too. At least Karam board/billiard doesn't take up lot of space and is not expensive...

[Tigers_eye]

Understanding of the game and its history makes everyone appreciate the game. The difficulty can only be understood if one plays the game. Just because the game itself is very expensive to play doesn't mean only rich folks play this game. There are 1st Tee program through out US where getto kids gets a chance to learn the game. Along side they learn discipline, honesty, respect and rules of the game. They become a better person all together.

[Tigers_eye]

Originally Posted by akabir77
...
Jotoi bench press koruk aita kono sports na. just like Karam board/billiard is not one too. At least Karam board/billiard doesn't take up lot of space and is not expensive...

lol, ludu'r example milto bhalo. Personal attack tho kori nai. Just showing what type of athletes some of them are. Truely bench pressing 200+ is no issue for some. I am not saying you are 200+, lol.

[Arnab]

Originally Posted by Tigers_eye
So is following cricket and typing in forums. All waste of money, space and time. The poor in your "desh'er bari" could use your able, strong two hands, wonderful intellect you possess, right about now. It's truely true.

Er, I am right here in Bangladesh.

So you are with Mother Teresa Organization (or similar type)? And still wasting your time here at BC? No conflict of interest?

Wasting my time? I am doing my fellow countrymen a service by volunteering my time here. For free! Mother Teresa would have been proud of me herself.

There are times when eyes deceive a person. This is one of them. There is more to it. Unless you try I can't change your perception.

So it's not about putting a ball in a hole? All I see is three fat white American commentators sitting behind a table droning in a monotonous voice about Tiger Woods every two minutes.

Good luck on your pigment transformation. Presuming you are a dark skinned person.

I know. Hope the joke was not lost on you.

[Arnab]

Originally Posted by Tigers_eye
Yes, yet some of the professionals can bench press you 20 reps, three times in a row.

Really? The following is a picture of a typical golfer. John Daly. This chain-smoking fatass has actually won not one, but TWO major golf championships: the PGA championship in 1991 and the British Open in 1995.




Just look at him!

Majestic, isn't it?

[Tigers_eye]

Originally Posted by Arnab
Wasting my time? I am doing my fellow countrymen a service by volunteering my time here. For free! Mother Teresa would have been proud of me herself. ...

Hope the joke was not lost on you.

The debate ends here. I am a fool indeed.

You can attack Tiger and golf but stay away from John Daly. He lives close by me (great that you have not mentioned the alcoholic he was, and the details of his relationship with his 1st wife, 2nd wife, now the 3rd wife). He can be the ultimate golfing hero for you.

[Arnab]

Paraphrasing someone else's view in another forum:

Golf tests two things:
* specialized golf skills
* concentration

Golf barely tests
* balance
* courage, as in taking riskier shots.

Golf doesn't test that most people think are essential attributes of a great athlete or great sportsman, e.g.,
* strength
* speed
* endurance
* agility
* reflexes
* the ability to adapt to an opponent

It's a borderline sport because of the minimal amount of physical ability involved to drive the ball to the hole. A typical day in golf includes making at most 18 shots that are physically the most demanding, i.e. the teeing off shot which is usually a drive. That's it! Only 18 shots.

When a flabby guy like Phil Mickelson can win almost three majors in a row smack in the middle of Tiger's career, it just shows that physical strength plays a minimal part in Golf. Which is why it's a borderline sport.

And consequently, Tiger Woods is not a real sportsman. He is just the best game player in a borderline sport.

[BANFAN]

Originally Posted by Arnab
Sorry, but I think your argument stinks. Perfection? That's your argument? Which sport isn't a pursuit of perfection? Look, the same argument can be given for precision sports like snooker, billiard, carom, etc. The difference is they waste a lot less space and a lot less time.

You are right. Difference between looking for perfection in a shot within a space of 2 Meters and a space of 200-500 Meters shouldn't be difficult to understand.

Originally Posted by Arnab
And if Golf is the kind of game that takes time to perfect, then why aren't the veterans burying Tiger with their experience more often? Following that logic, we should see Els, Mickelson, etc. kill those drives and putts, and at least be in contention, in top 5 of every final round of a major. Why aren't they doing that?

That's why he is tiger and that's what makes him unique, a star, isn't it?

Originally Posted by Arnab
My theory is that Golf is popular because it's backed by big corporations who put a lot of money in it. Money is always good. They also buy a lot of media time because of the money. I don't want to watch golf when I can watch a thousand times more exciting tennis match, or a 20/20 cricket match, or a football match, or just about any sport, because chances are it's much less boring and much less time consuming than watching golf. Seriously, as a viewer, what am I supposed to do when a golfer is thinking for 5 minutes about his next shot? And then strolling for another 5 minutes towards the ball. Sit in front of the TV like a moron?

If you knew the game, you would see probably his preshot routines, the lie of the ball, The wind speed and dir, The club he is using from that distance, The line he is taking etc could check back with what you would have done. Then see the swing he deployed for the shot and offcourse the result he achieved. etc. Or just can clap a good shot close to the pin as a noncricketer do clap watching cric for a 4/6 even without thinking of the technicalities of the shot.

Originally Posted by Arnab
And Tiger? Well he is American, that's the first thing. Americans always give enormous amount of media time on an American sporting hero. And if he is really good, like Tiger here, they go overboard. I remember how cycling was a big thing in the United States just a few years back, solely because of Lance Armstrong. I suspect now it has died down because an American is not dominating any more.

Golf is much more widely played than cycling and the expansion of Golf is much faster at the moment than many other sports. It is not b’coz of Tiger is American; May be sponsors and Money but also for passion. There are more European/SA golfers in the top chart than Americans.

Originally Posted by Arnab
I intend to pick up Golf as well...probably when I am rich, fat, white and 50+, and when I can't run and think fast anymore.

If you want to learn at some point of time, Better you do it now, or will definitely regret later. Age don't come back. Earlier is better to teach your body.
You are saying all those that every non golfer sometime says/thinks of golf before he /she becomes a golfer.

[Sohel]

Looks like someone has picked a fight quite successfully here ...

Bitter boredom makes us do many things before we realize that it DOES get better. In my case, it took about 3 years, AFTER quitting the corporate world and doing some useful work in T&T bausti, and having a life outside the filth of Dhaka and its far filthier semi-feudal petit-bourgeiosie once I moved back for good about 6 years ago ...

Golf IS a game, not a sport IMO, with critical biomechanical elements like Pool, taking place in a large, park-like setting. It gets confused as a sport while something like Ballroom Dancing doesn't get the recognition it desrves as one. That said, Golf sure is fun to play. Since it's silly to separate the mind from the body as the relationship between the two is symbiotic, athleticism helps as aptly demonstrated by Tiger.

I've known Go, Chess and Pool players who play better because they workout. Yet to meet Ludo and Carom players with similar experience(s) though.

BTW, Tiger is more Asian than anything else with his mom being Thai and his paternal grandmother being Chinese American. Then again, in the US you're Black even with a single drop of African blood, not counting the fact that ALL of our ancestors hail from that continent. Another story.

Playing golf in Bangladesh IMHO is no more vulgar than playing tennis, driving a car (no matter how fancy), subscribing to an ISP or a cable TV operator, or going to a facy restaurant. I work with families where everyone from the age of 80 to 5 work their tails off, and make BDT 4,000 a month collectively. A typical such faimly is ususally of 8 or more people living in a shack smaller than some fancy toilets in neighboring Gulshan and Banani.

After paying a wide variety of "fees" to the Police and their selected deliquents for rent and protection against itself -- the real extortionists, child molesters, drug dealers and pimps of Dhaka -- they have about 1800 left for the month. For them, the sheer idea of spending close to 1000 takas or more for a single meal for two is nothing short of mind-blowing. Yet they do not burn our houses down or riot.

You gotta accept the good with the bad whenever you can. Golf, once you play it, is GOOD no matter where you take that walk with club in hand. The best readers and putters of the game in Bangladesh are some of the caddies BTW, just like the ball boys tend to be our best tennis players since even before Hiralal broke the class-barrier, and started kicking the borhoshaheb's fat @$$. It will happen in golf also Inshallah ...

[cricman]

Tiger out for the rest of the year

[BANFAN]

Originally Posted by Sohel NR
.......Golf IS a game, not a sport IMO, with critical biomechanical elements like Pool, taking place in a large, park-like setting............

Well, I wish you play a round of 18 holes and compare it with your physical efforts of a cricket match.

By the time you finish it you will finish walking 5 Km minimum, atleast 100 swings as a beginer or around 72 as pro, another 150 practice swings, courses involve a lots of climbs as well since almost no course is plain, all the mental pressure and forget about the pressure of tournaments.

It's not compareable with football/basketball/squash but definitely highly compareable with cricket in physical aspects.

Believe me it is in no way a larger version of pool/billiard. It makes me believe that, you havn't tried to play golf yet

BD has about 10 courses, you may try there as well. It's easy to enter in all the courses except Kurmitola. It has a little difficult entry process than others. Bhatiary is the best in BD and definitely one of the best in the world that any golfer would like to try.

It's a common idea about golf, just like beginners have idea about beer.

[akabir77]

Originally Posted by BANFAN
Well, I wish you play a round of 18 holes and compare it with your physical efforts of a cricket match.

By the time you finish it you will finish walking 5 Km minimum, atleast 100 swings as a beginer or around 72 as pro, another 150 practice swings, courses involve a lots of climbs as well since almost no course is plain, all the mental pressure and forget about the pressure of tournaments.

It's not compareable with football/basketball/squash but definitely highly compareable with cricket in physical aspects.

Believe me it is in no way a larger version of pool/billiard. It makes me believe that, you havn't tried to play golf yet

BD has about 10 courses, you may try there as well. It's easy to enter in all the courses except Kurmitola. It has a little difficult entry process than others. Bhatiary is the best in BD and definitely one of the best in the world that any golfer would like to try.

It's a common idea about golf, just like beginners have idea about beer.

when did walking became a sports?lol

[BANFAN]

Originally Posted by akabir77
when did walking became a sports?lol

First of all could you define sports?

Note: Walking is a part of olympics as well, as an athletics event. Just a lead if athleticism has anything to do with sports.