Team is Shaping Up, Needs to Learn How to Finish

[NKVD]

Originally Posted by Eshen
On occasions, yes. But not every match. This team still have too many issues to regularly challenge G8 teams.

Everybody agrees with you as it is a known fact.

[bujhee kom]

Bhais, ami khoob emotionally bhenge poresi!

[NKVD]

Originally Posted by Eshen
Really?!!! So how many matches we have won so far, against G8, on non-Eid days?

You are just proving everybodies point and hope with this self contradiction -

If there were no eid days in the past, and no one knew of a eid, how do you think you would have measured current performances against those ?

[NKVD]

Originally Posted by bujhee kom
Bhais, ami khoob emotionally bhenge poresi!

abaar, keno ?

If you are a student, consider these as the happiest times of your life.

[Rubu]

position wise:

1. tamim no question asked.
2. kayes, good enough for now until we find a better one.
3. mushy - gotta agree with amtr there
4. shakib - no question asked
5. mahmudullah - yeah, time for a promotion
6. naeem
7. still up for grab
8. shuvo for now, lets see how he does in the next 10 games
9. razzak, hope he does well
10. rubel
11. saiful

except for another batsman, (if a good one found push up the order), I also think team is forming up.

[Eshen]

^^ Why is this idiot trying so hard to pick a fight with me?!!!

(Not you Rubu, I mean the one posted before you in the thread)

[yaseer]

I disagree Warwolf bhai.

One competitive match, and we are in shape? We have been playing like this for two seasons now. Last year we won matches against SRI and NZ. What are our achievements with this "shaped" team so far? Some new individual performers taking over old ones, nothing more than that. What we actaully getting is more runs than previous generation but still not enough. If we cannot beat this under-strength England side, then I think we have not improved from last 2 years.

[al Furqaan]

Originally Posted by Eshen
BTW, we won matches in past even with bad umpires. Umpiring would be non-issue if our fielders held onto couple more catches or if batsmen scored 20 more runs.

i think the ODI landscape is changing...our highest score winning against G8 is 251 against RSA. nowadays we pile up 290, 280, 260, and lose. is our bowling that bad, or our batting is not up to par on flat wickets? its a combination of both, but at the same time, gone are the days when teams can defend 235-245 scores. even the top bowling attacks will struggle against non-minnows.

but, did you mean to say we won as virtue of bad calls going in our favor, or despite the bad calls? if its the latter, sure, we won, and thats good. but that can't make up for the fact that we'd have won an equal number of additional games with competent/unbiased umpires. tar por to ross taylor ar maccullum er churi/dakati to asay...

[bura]

Originally Posted by Eshen
beshideshi, what's your definition of being out played?

Here is our results in last two years - http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/...m;view=results

On average, we lost matches against G7 by 5-6 wickets. We even lost 4 ODIs against Zimbabwe in the time period!

lets look at the same data in a diff way

Here is yr by by Batting record of BD against G8. Here avg is the team runs scored per wk by a BD batsman.

start   Team  	Mat  	Won  	Lost  	Tied  	NR  	W/L  	Ave  	RPO  	HS  	LS  	YearAscending  	
Bangladesh 	4 	0 	4 	0 	0 	0.00 	25.62 	4.03 	249 	87 	2000 	investigate this query
Bangladesh 	14 	0 	13 	0 	1 	0.00 	17.56 	3.71 	226 	76 	2002 	investigate this query
Bangladesh 	19 	0 	18 	0 	1 	0.00 	17.43 	3.74 	244 	76 	2003 	investigate this query
Bangladesh 	15 	1 	14 	0 	0 	0.07 	17.92 	3.80 	257 	86 	2004 	investigate this query
Bangladesh 	9 	1 	8 	0 	0 	0.12 	23.58 	4.27 	250 	108 	2005 	investigate this query
Bangladesh 	8 	1 	7 	0 	0 	0.14 	20.13 	4.06 	265 	118 	2006 	investigate this query
Bangladesh 	15 	2 	13 	0 	0 	0.15 	19.29 	3.98 	251 	93 	2007 	investigate this query
Bangladesh 	22 	1 	21 	0 	0 	0.04 	20.31 	4.19 	285 	74 	2008 	investigate this query
Bangladesh 	5 	4 	1 	0 	0 	4.00 	28.26 	4.85 	276 	152 	2009 	investigate this query
Bangladesh 	9 	0 	9 	0 	0 	0.00 	30.33 	4.90 	296 	190 	2010 	investigate this query

Definitely, our batting is improving in all the grounds pointed here.

Bowling is not as impressive though. This shows avg runs we have given away per wk.

 start   Team  	Mat  	Won  	Lost  	Tied  	NR  	W/L  	Ave  	RPO  	HS  	LS  	YearAscending  	
Bangladesh 	4 	0 	4 	0 	0 	0.00 	123.25 	5.98 	320 	- 	2000 	investigate this query
Bangladesh 	14 	0 	13 	0 	1 	0.00 	45.88 	5.46 	301 	202 	2002 	investigate this query
Bangladesh 	19 	0 	18 	0 	1 	0.00 	47.56 	5.43 	323 	276 	2003 	investigate this query
Bangladesh 	15 	1 	14 	0 	0 	0.07 	36.25 	4.80 	348 	214 	2004 	investigate this query
Bangladesh 	9 	1 	8 	0 	0 	0.12 	58.47 	5.97 	391 	- 	2005 	investigate this query
Bangladesh 	8 	1 	7 	0 	0 	0.14 	39.97 	5.14 	309 	212 	2006 	investigate this query
Bangladesh 	15 	2 	13 	0 	0 	0.15 	39.15 	5.14 	335 	184 	2007 	investigate this query
Bangladesh 	22 	1 	21 	0 	0 	0.04 	43.79 	5.54 	358 	233 	2008 	investigate this query
Bangladesh 	5 	4 	1 	0 	0 	4.00 	23.09 	4.61 	274 	147 	2009 	investigate this query
Bangladesh 	9 	0 	9 	0 	0 	0.00 	51.42 	5.85 	336 	- 	2010 	investigate this query

2009 was the greatest of all (WI tour?). But 2010 is not great so far. I will wait till the end of 2010 though to conclude.

I don't want to pose excuses like we are lacking Mash, in form Raj.... and we playing on flat tracks these days etc... We definitely need more improvements on bowling for sure.

But, I am sure for test we are improving on both bowling and batting.

[nannu]

agree, i am happy with our team improving... need just 2 more good inform batsman..

specially at nr 3.. and we are ready for top 8

[Haradhon]

Even though England won the ODI series, I would still call today's ODI match the best performance against G-8 and if BD wins the 3rd ODI in style, with batters scoring several 50's and 30's and avoiding any top and middle order collapse, this ODI series would be our best performance.
I am happy with the progress the team is making and here is why:
Tamim: If he maintains his current form during the away series in England, I am sure he will be called one of the best openers in ODI. He is the most imporved player since Jamie Siddon became BD coach.
Imrul: He provides the necessary support to Tamim and holds the wicket when TI falls. I do not blame him for the 70+ dot balls.
Mushy: He rose up to the occassion today and prevented our top order from collapsing and consolidated the innings with Imrul at the right time. If he can play similar role in a couple of more instances, he should be considered our No. 3 or 4 batter.
Shakib: His 12-ball 14 was valuable; he has (as Ash once had) the capability to take a game away. Had he not fallen to Swann, we would have scored 300+. However, he made it up by bowling economically and taking 3 wickets
Mahmudullah & Naeem: Both of them are mentally superior to Ash, Aftab or Junaed. Imagine if we promoted Mushy-Mahmudullah up the order and played Aftad later, we could have scored 320. We do not need Aftab for power play because he brings both runs and top order collapse. We needed his stroke play after 35 overs and did not have any

Razzak: He performed today and took the vital wicket of KP. We need another spinner of his calibre. I have to watch the replay to judge Shuvo.

Here is the progress that I see BD has made: We score 200+ even when either the top or middle order collapses and score 240+ comfortably when there is no collapse. We can do it consistently against G-8 in home and away games

After losing the nail-bitter I was depressed during the first half of the day. After analyzing the proceedinsg of this morning with an unbiased mind, I think we are on the verge of changing G-8 to G-9.
I look forward to enjoying the 3rd ODI and 2 competitive tests.

In the "Mark My Words" thread I said, we will win 1 ODI and draw 1 test. I will stick to my words.

We are no longer "ordinary." Let Shewag eat his own words!

[al-Sagar]

i liked yesterdays combination

tamim- getting closer to being world class
imrul- he can make us competetive in games, but he cannot add the extra 20 runs needed to win games, good for now but we certainly need a replacement in future unless he adds some SR into his game.
NO3-place is up for grabs, some one who can rotate the strike
mushfiq-he showed he is capable of defending, stabilizing and then accelerating. should play no 4
shakib- this is his place
mahmudullah- not up than 6 and not below than 6
naeem- wish he could play up, but no vacancy
shuvo- good player to be at 8, and with some more experience he could be the steady 10 over 30-40 run bowler in the middle of innings
no 9
no 10
no 11

we 3 spots left for 3 bowlers, can be 2 pacers 1 spinner or 3 pacers. for odi's i think one of nazmul and a fit mashrafe should play. and also we should not play both our expensive newbies rubel (5.95) and shafiul (6.77) together. if we play a spinner abdur razzak is the choice.

but we need some backups who can give competettion. and also we must use the part timers naeem and mahumudullah carefully, because smedays they can be good but again somedays they will be hit all over the park. so we have to be careful about them

[Haradhon]

Originally Posted by offstump
i liked yesterdays combination


NO3-place is up for grabs, some one who can rotate the strike
mushfiq-he showed he is capable of defending, stabilizing and then accelerating. should play no 4
shakib- this is his place

I think we should give Rokibul a chance at No. 3. I definitely do not want Aftab at No. 3 for the same reason that we laid off Ash. There is no reasons to lose a wicket early because that precipitates the collapse

[yaseer]

Originally Posted by al Furqaan
i think the ODI landscape is changing...our highest score winning against G8 is 251 against RSA. nowadays we pile up 290, 280, 260, and lose. is our bowling that bad, or our batting is not up to par on flat wickets? its a combination of both, but at the same time, gone are the days when teams can defend 235-245 scores. even the top bowling attacks will struggle against non-minnows.

That is a good point AF.

250+ score were competitive in ODI standard in past and we strugled to score 200 runs at that time. With inlusion of 20 overs Power-Play, 20/20 format bringing in much more stroke-makers, even flatter pitches - now around 300 is a competitive score in ODI format and we are scoring regular 200+. So, we were behind the standard in past, still we are behind the actual standard. Whatever improvement we are seeing statistically, it is because the game has changed. We have not been able to minimize the gap of standard with G8 teams.

[bujhee kom]

Originally Posted by NKVD
abaar, keno ?
If you are a student, consider these as the happiest times of your life.

Ji uncle, thik bolechen. Amar kintoo chokh die top top kore pani pore aar hau mau kore kaadte iccha kore amader teamer dhojo failure condition dekhe...ami amar study-te mon dite ekebarei partesi naa.....I have already turned into a true mental patient.

[auntu]

Originally Posted by WarWolf
Though most of the fans are really frustrated, I am happy with the way the team has been playing for last one year. We left those days far behind when we used to get out below 200 regularly and once in a while pushed the opponent on the wall. Now the very young team is playing good cricket almost every game. Due to lack of experience we are not able to finish the matches properly on a positive note. On the other hand, we must not forget that we are the biggest victim of poor umpiring for a long time.

Now look at the team.
We have a good opening pair now. Tamim is already a world class opener and Imrul is a good opener in Bangladeshi standard. I hope both of them will continue to improve.

Our No. 3 and No.4 positions are the places which hurt us most. We must find good mature batsmen for these two positions.

At No. 5, 6, 7 and 8 we have Shakib, Mushy, Riad and Nayeem. All of them are improving day by day and have all the signs to be top international standard players.

We have a good pace attack now with 3 pacers who can hit 140+ regularly. With Mash being fit and in form we will have a top pace attack.

Our spin dept is also a good one consisting of Shakib, Riyad, Naeem and Razzak.

All we need is to have two good matured batsmen at No.3 and 4 and we will be able to win matches regularly.

Good matured analysis by Sadi bhai.

একেবারে অভিজ্ঞতায় ঋদ্ধ। সাধু সাধু।

২য় ম্যাচ আরেকটি ব্যাপার প্রমান করলো যে, ভালো সিলেকশন কত জরুরী। মুশফিকের ৪ নম্বরে খেলানোর সার্থকতা সে ভালো মতোই প্রমান করেছে। আশাকরি সে সেখানে থিতু হবে।

আফতাবের ৩ নম্বরে খেলার আর কোন যুক্তি আমি খুজে পাচ্ছি না। যদি তার কোন ভালো রিপ্লেসমেন্ট নাই পাওয়া যায় তার স্থলে নাঈমকে এবং আফতাবকে ব্যাটিং অর্ডারের পিছনে নামিয়ে দেয়া উচিত। আফতাবকে দেখে মনে হচ্ছেও না যে সে লম্বা সময় নিয়ে ধরে ধরে ইনিংস খেলার মুডে আছে (কখনই ছিলো না)। তাই আফতাবকে ব্যাটিং পাওয়ার প্লেতে ব্যবহার করা যেতে পারে। আমার মনে হয় না এই মুহূর্তে এর কোন বিকল্প আমাদের হাতে আছে।

শুভ'র হাতে ভালো হিটিং ক্ষমতা আছে। ফিল্ডিং এ অসাধারণ। বোলিং এ মাত্র ৩ ওভার দেখেছি। অসাধারন কিছু মনে হয় নাই। আশাকরি উন্নতি করবে।

আব্দুর রাজ্জেকের কামব্যাকটা খুব দরকার ছিলো। সাকিবের একা উইকেট নিয়ে দলকে টেনে নেয়ার যোগ্য সাহচর্য আব্দুর রাজ্জাক ছাড়া আর কেউ দেয়ার নেই। মনে রাখা দরকার সে আমাদের অন্যতম সেরা ওয়ানডে বোলার।

মাশরাফীকে না খেলানোর সিদ্ধান্তটা খুব ভালো হয়েছে। আশাকরি তার সাথে সাকিব তথা টিম ম্যানেজমেন্টের দূরত্ত্ব কমে আসবে এবং মান-অভিমানের এই পালা বন্ধ হবে। এক্ষেত্রে বিসিবির অক্ষমতা দেখার মতো। তারা বিষয়টি সম্পর্কে জেনেছেন পত্রিকার মাধ্যমে! এই সকল তথাকথিত কর্মকর্তা কর্মের কর্তা নাকি কর্তার ইচ্ছায় কর্তা তা আর কতদিন চোখ চেয়ে সহ্য করতে হবে তা বোধকরি এক খোদাতালাই জানেন।

তবে ডেথ ওভারে আমাদের বোলারদের ব্লক হোলে বোলিং এর অক্ষমতা নিয়ে সত্যিকারের দুঃশ্চিতা থেকেই যাচ্ছে। আশাকরি চাম্পাকা এর থেকে পরিত্রাণের কোন উপায় বের করে ফেলতে কাজ করে যাচ্ছে এবং হয়তো শীঘ্রই আমরা এর সুফল দেখতে পাবো। (আশাবাদ দিয়ে শেষ করতে হয় বলে বলা আরকি)

[FagunerAgun]

Good thread Warwolf.
This is the last piece of the puzzle.

[al Furqaan]

Originally Posted by yaseer
That is a good point AF.

250+ score were competitive in ODI standard in past and we strugled to score 200 runs at that time. With inlusion of 20 overs Power-Play, 20/20 format bringing in much more stroke-makers, even flatter pitches - now around 300 is a competitive score in ODI format and we are scoring regular 200+. So, we were behind the standard in past, still we are behind the actual standard. Whatever improvement we are seeing statistically, it is because the game has changed. We have not been able to minimize the gap of standard with G8 teams.

i would not say that. i think have largely minimized the gap, and yet to bridge it. then we have cross the bridge before we can actually join the G7 or G8 on the other side.

in the past, a game where took 8 wickets and lost in the last several deliveries was rare. it was the odd game, and then we won another odd match out of every 10.

now, we are pushing the opposition or at least setting ourselves up to be in a spot of strength. poor bowling, dropped catches, shitty umpiring, questionable captaincy decisions, bad team management and selection...for whatever reason we're falling short. the batsmen have their brain farts, but are continuing improvements more often than not.

are we progressing?

well are opposing teams expecting a stroll in the park these days?

[tiger_army]

Originally Posted by auntu
Good matured analysis by Sadi bhai.

একেবারে অভিজ্ঞতায় ঋদ্ধ। সাধু সাধু।

২য় ম্যাচ আরেকটি ব্যাপার প্রমান করলো যে, ভালো সিলেকশন কত জরুরী। মুশফিকের ৪ নম্বরে খেলানোর সার্থকতা সে ভালো মতোই প্রমান করেছে। আশাকরি সে সেখানে থিতু হবে।

আফতাবের ৩ নম্বরে খেলার আর কোন যুক্তি আমি খুজে পাচ্ছি না। যদি তার কোন ভালো রিপ্লেসমেন্ট নাই পাওয়া যায় তার স্থলে নাঈমকে এবং আফতাবকে ব্যাটিং অর্ডারের পিছনে নামিয়ে দেয়া উচিত। আফতাবকে দেখে মনে হচ্ছেও না যে সে লম্বা সময় নিয়ে ধরে ধরে ইনিংস খেলার মুডে আছে (কখনই ছিলো না)। তাই আফতাবকে ব্যাটিং পাওয়ার প্লেতে ব্যবহার করা যেতে পারে। আমার মনে হয় না এই মুহূর্তে এর কোন বিকল্প আমাদের হাতে আছে।

শুভ'র হাতে ভালো হিটিং ক্ষমতা আছে। ফিল্ডিং এ অসাধারণ। বোলিং এ মাত্র ৩ ওভার দেখেছি। অসাধারন কিছু মনে হয় নাই। আশাকরি উন্নতি করবে।

আব্দুর রাজ্জেকের কামব্যাকটা খুব দরকার ছিলো। সাকিবের একা উইকেট নিয়ে দলকে টেনে নেয়ার যোগ্য সাহচর্য আব্দুর রাজ্জাক ছাড়া আর কেউ দেয়ার নেই। মনে রাখা দরকার সে আমাদের অন্যতম সেরা ওয়ানডে বোলার।

মাশরাফীকে না খেলানোর সিদ্ধান্তটা খুব ভালো হয়েছে। আশাকরি তার সাথে সাকিব তথা টিম ম্যানেজমেন্টের দূরত্ত্ব কমে আসবে এবং মান-অভিমানের এই পালা বন্ধ হবে। এক্ষেত্রে বিসিবির অক্ষমতা দেখার মতো। তারা বিষয়টি সম্পর্কে জেনেছেন পত্রিকার মাধ্যমে! এই সকল তথাকথিত কর্মকর্তা কর্মের কর্তা নাকি কর্তার ইচ্ছায় কর্তা তা আর কতদিন চোখ চেয়ে সহ্য করতে হবে তা বোধকরি এক খোদাতালাই জানেন।

তবে ডেথ ওভারে আমাদের বোলারদের ব্লক হোলে বোলিং এর অক্ষমতা নিয়ে সত্যিকারের দুঃশ্চিতা থেকেই যাচ্ছে। আশাকরি চাম্পাকা এর থেকে পরিত্রাণের কোন উপায় বের করে ফেলতে কাজ করে যাচ্ছে এবং হয়তো শীঘ্রই আমরা এর সুফল দেখতে পাবো। (আশাবাদ দিয়ে শেষ করতে হয় বলে বলা আরকি)

Well said....I dont mind loosing tomo game as well, but if we can learn our lesson from this series and BEAT ENGLAND IN WC that will be a perfect revenge...

[Tiger Manc]

I just feel we lack a big hitter towards the end of our innings. So many of the big teams have batsman who can hit big sixes to boost the run rate, yet whenever we try and hit a boundary it goes straight to the fielder. We seem to lack the strength to be able to hit a six. In today's match chasing 284 there was only one six. We need our #7 and #8 batsman to be big hitters with good strike rates.