Let's discuss Universal Basic Income!

[Zeeshan]

I am for it.

Go.

[bujhee kom]

Makin the money...spendin the money!
Paycheck in the bank!

Get paid in gold. Get paid in cash.
Cash for your unused gold and silver. (+ stolen goods)

[Zeeshan]

shobaike one million dollar kore diye deu... jau!

[bujhee kom]

Universal 'Kaajer binimoy-e Khaddo"!

Khaal khonon kormosuchi...Khaal kato..Roti banau! GorOm Atop chaaler bhaat!


Dada, tumakey amar book dhala balobasa...thank you Gopal, amar dada!

[Zeeshan]

Originally Posted by bujhee kom
Makin the money...spendin the money!
Paycheck in the bank!

Get paid in gold. Get paid in cash.
Cash for your unused gold and silver. (+ stolen goods)

Don't let roey steal that off you. Btw, it will benefit artists like roey. Roey haque that is.

[Zeeshan]

[bujhee kom]

Universal Angola, Nigeria, Sierra Leone and Ivory Coast paycheck...
Kampfen und shieben und toten ... in heroin bezahlt

[bujhee kom]

Na na dosto, on a serious note...yeah, I am also for some type of universal paycheck in one currency.
Basic income, food and healthcare.
And clothing too - Uniclo.

[SportingBD]

What do you mean by Universal income? Like the average needed to survive around the world?

[Zeeshan]

Originally Posted by SportingBD
What do you mean by Universal income? Like the average needed to survive around the world?

When confronting my own mortality, I usually find Google to be my best friend.

[SportingBD]

Depends on country by country. The economy of countries differ.

[Zeeshan]

Originally Posted by SportingBD
Depends on country by country. The economy of countries differ.

I know. I was just joking.

I think the more serious question are... who will play? (I am no economist...) How much minimum is sufficient? How much toll does that take on overall growth etc..? (I am speaking absolutely from US perspective... have zero clue or idea about UK) ..

Zuckerberg, Elon Musk have all spoken for it. (LOL why is it always the hip techies that lead the way..)

The funny thing is sometimes these issues creep up on you. I am sure someone would do a Moore's law and rate of automation graph study or something. Gay marriage, weed legalization...all these are reality. It seems like an issue that will take 10 years to fruit, but we never know...

I will be more curious how it pans out not here in US, but in developing countries like in Africa and BD.

[Zeeshan]

ay tumra bk r sathe misshyo na ...o khali dmt khay

[SportingBD]

Gay marriage, weed legalization...all these are reality.

I really don't know why we are so inclined towards inventing different kind of diseases in the world. I'm against this kind of legalisation based on medical stats. Legalising this kind of things will lead to many forms of different new diseases in the future. But its just my opinion.

In the UK, if your not employed, the government gives you enough to live a decent life. Lot of Bangladeshi older generations are on benefits (government is providing different kinds). I think countries like US/UK are fine in terms of having a basic income to survive. It varies, in many EU countries, what the government gives isn't enough for people say who are unemployed, widowed etc.. pensioners.. its more relative to what country you live in. Speaking for UK - its pretty good here.

[Zeeshan]

Originally Posted by SportingBD
Gay marriage, weed legalization...all these are reality.

I really don't know why we are so inclined towards inventing different kind of diseases in the world. I'm against this kind of legalisation based on medical stats. Legalising this kind of things will lead to many forms of different new diseases in the future. But its just my opinion.

In the UK, if your not employed, the government gives you enough to live a decent life. Lot of Bangladeshi older generations are on benefits (government is providing different kinds). I think countries like US/UK are fine in terms of having a basic income to survive. It varies, in many EU countries, what the government gives isn't enough for people say who are unemployed, widowed etc.. pensioners.. its more relative to what country you live in. Speaking for UK - its pretty good here.

Yeah but benefits and welfare is not enough. (I will leave out the progressive side of my view regarding those two above subjects... but you get the gist where I am coming from.)

Anyhoo, the point is that of unconditional grant. And seed money to be sufficient. Think about it. When a baby is born, it is not his fault that he came here. No one is against reproduction, but when you frikkin give birth to a baby, not only you are mucking up the carbon footprint, but you are basically after five or six years of playing cutesy and footsie saying: "Okay my love is waning, time for you to toughen up little soldier and hit the stupid books so that you can study so that you can work so that you can retire and live happily ever after unless you die of stroke and heart disease at 60..." It is an uphill battle all along and good luck if you are from south central la, compton, harlem or parts of chicago where deck is already stacked against you..

The hell is wrong with that system!

It is lopsided, backwards and completely counterproductive.

With benefits, you can only have certain amount in bank, you cannot purchase expensive stuffs, you cannot save, you cannot buy house or travel ... and transparent.

The system is designed to keep you perpetually poor and slave to the system. But when vending machine is automated and penny dropped... the s***s clear... uh oh... we been doing this wrong and suddenly there is chance of 50% of jobs becoming automated with mass unemployment...

I got zero respect for all these so called hard workers and proponents of Puritan values from industrial age rather these creative geniuses of tech industry who are the real heroes in my opinion who are also hard workers...just not mindless hard worker ...

Also, think of a traffic in developed countries. (Bd is different than first world infrastructure..) But generally, after Western countries automated their system, you don't see dumbf***s breaking the law and rule and accidents happening every second. Human nature by nature is peaceful and civil and all just wanna get by.

So three things happend:

1. traffic cop's job got obsolete (stark reality eh?)
2. traffic became efficient
3. probably traffic accidents decreased

It is not like everything went haywire and people started panicking just because there is no comfort giving baby sitting police or traffic man to look after you...

[SportingBD]

I got some of your points and some I didn't.

Like are you blaming parents for having kids? because they will become slave of the system?
Didn't really understand this bit.

It's like saying to a poor person in Bangladesh, don't have kids, your kids will be poor like you?
Or don't have kids, your kids will be on benefits like you (due to many kind of government restraints)..

Didn't get that..

[Zeeshan]

Originally Posted by SportingBD
I got some of your points and some I didn't.

Like are you blaming parents for having kids? because they will become slave of the system?
Didn't really understand this bit.

It's like saying to a poor person in Bangladesh, don't have kids, your kids will be poor like you?
Or don't have kids, your kids will be on benefits like you (due to many kind of government restraints)..

Didn't get that..

Absolutely. If you are struggling and having a s***y life, last thing you need to do is breed and bring a new being on earth fully knowing you won't be able to support it. (I partially blame religion for it but that is whole another can of worms..)

Listen the point is it is not a level playing field. And it doesn't have to be. But when we have the ideology and technology to make it less of a uneven playing field, why shouldn't we do it? Why after all the big holistic goal is to reduce poverty and crime? I mean this is why we do jobs no? We go to school, study, work hard to support ourselves, make the world a better place and reduce crime and poverty and create youtopia... But giving certain sum can cut through all the bs like gordian knot. And it may not, and will not solve humanity's problems.

See... humanity by nature is intelligent, safety driven and do not abuse. But many puritan minded staunch conservatives have this idea that humans are lazy parasites who will deteriorate and rot in wheelchair all bloated in booze and stuff in dark alley without intervention is just plain ridiculous...

Why did microcredit work?
Why does traffic system in my example work?
Why did legalizing all drugs in Portugal work?
Why do so many millennials educates themselves from online in science and arts?

This idea, that without Big Brother intervention humanity is destined to rot and suffer is absolutely childish (note not child-like). People in general are growth oriented and want to prosper.

Who knows? In 100 years time, basic income would be staple like...hmm... health? We don't after all have this ultra anal preachy idea that everyone should be born deformed and obese and need to "work hard" to get to where they should be which in many ways is just to be normal and healthy.

It would be common place. Current model of education system and banal work would be obsolete.

Time stamped Gupal Bhar (no affiliation with paypal)

[SportingBD]

Absolutely. If you are struggling and having a s***y life, last thing you need to do is breed and bring a new being on earth fully knowing you won't be able to support it. (I partially blame religion for it but that is whole another can of worms..)

Based on your logic, half of Africa would not exist. Nonsense. Life is not about just money.

Money is only one part of it.

Many of the older generation were much poorer, they worked hard to have a decent life.
Our new generation expectation is like we should have everything on our plate - no.

Who cares if you are poor or rich? as long as you can feed yourself. Many of those who chose to have children also take responsibility to feed them, how they do it is non of our business. If they want to have kids, it purely up to them.

The logic only rich can have kids and poor can't is disgusting at best.

How many poor person that were nothing became rich? and how many rich person that were everything became poor?

[SportingBD]

You trace some of the lineage of those rich people..

You will find how they came from very very poor family..

Or how their ancestors were basically slaves...

[Zeeshan]

Originally Posted by SportingBD
Based on your logic, half of Africa would not exist. Nonsense. Life is not about just money.

Money is only one part of it.

Many of the older generation were much poorer, they worked hard to have a decent life.
Our new generation expectation is like we should have everything on our plate - no.

Who cares if you are poor or rich? as long as you can feed yourself. Many of those who chose to have children also take responsibility to feed them, how they do it is non of our business. If they want to have kids, it purely up to them.

The logic only rich can have kids and poor can't is disgusting at best.

How many poor person that were nothing became rich? and how many rich person that were everything became poor?

Yeah sure. Let's just go on pretending overpopulation does nothing to conduce poverty in those parts of the world.

[Zeeshan]

Whooo! Let's bring a baby to world. Who cares if it starves or suffers from polio!!

[aklemalp]

Population Density

[SportingBD]

Originally Posted by Zeeshan
Yeah sure. Let's just go on pretending overpopulation does nothing to conduce poverty in those parts of the world.

so a country can be overcrowded if all of them are rich? Trying very hard to understand your point. is the problem overcrowding? Or the rich wanting to become more rich? And putting up taxes etc to make the decent income people poorer? While the rich enjoys many benefits etc? Where is the balance in that? Helping the rich become rich? And poor become poorer? Is that their fault? How about the governments favouring the elites? Isn't there many different factors involved as to why people become rich or poor?

[SportingBD]

Originally Posted by Zeeshan
Whooo! Let's bring a baby to world. Who cares if it starves or suffers from polio!!

That shouldn't be your or my concern. It should be the concern of their parents. Majority of African countries don't or receive minimal help from the government. If the poor decides to have children why should it impact you? How? Everyone has the right to decide their own life irrespective of if they are poor or rich. For humans (Rich) to dictate the terms of the poor sets a bad example for the future.

[Nafi]

Wages arent even catching up with inflation, universal basic income atm is a sci fi fantasy