Best orthodox spinner in the world

[Hatebreed]

Vettori is by far the best.. Rafique is good but he's not as effective.

[Miraz]

Vettori is definitely good but Rafiq is also very effective if not better. We have to keep one thing in mind that Vettori gets lots of support from the felow batsmen and thats why he can experiment with his deliveries. He can give loop and flight in the deliveries which made him a good orthodox spinner. On the other hand Rafiq never gets support from BD batsmen and thats why he has to bowl flat deliveries to contain the batsman and prevent scoring.

I personally think Rafiq bowls armer deliveries lot better than Vettori. I would be intersting if Rafiq could give his deliveries sufficient air and could bowl without pressure. I hope Rafiq will get those days before his retirement.

[Donny]

Originally posted by jayed
4reely- my friend is a way of saying 'freely'. in nowadays, the text message generation, this is a common lingo.

for instance-
jayed,
74Y3D

Thanks jayed.

I live in the crater of a long extinct volcano and so cannot get mobile phone reception and although I do chat a fair bit on the net, there's still a lot of jargon I don't recognise or understand.

I accept it's desirable/practical to use 'short form' language when there's a space or time restriction but in a bulletin board, neither of these are the case.

There are still many who use the internet but don't chat or understand the (phone/chat) jargon. I run a bulletin board and have to remind some of my members about this, especially new ones.

I don't insist on correct spelling or even good grammar but readers do like to understand what the poster has written.

[RazabQ]

Ok, want to clarify the confusion regarding spin bowlers.

There are primarily two forms. Finger spinner and wrist spinner.

Finger Spinners come in two varieties

Right arm off-break, and Left arm orthodox. Both are essentially the same, in terms of action and spin imparted, it's just the bowling arm, and hence direction of spin (wrt right-handed batsmen) is reveres. Dunno why only left-armers are called orthodox, but I have a theory which I'll explain in the next category.

Finger spinners tend to have 3 times of delivery, which combined with variations of speed, flight/loop, drift and superannuatoin of the wrist, consitute their arsenal.

The stock delivery tends to be the one that, for a righ hander, will spin into a right handed batsmen and for a left hander spin away. Then there's the arm ball - this is more often used by left handers, but essentiall an arm ball is where the action is unchanged but not much rpm is imparted on the ball and the ball goes on straight. Then there's the doosra. Originally popularized by Saqlain, a doosra is a finger spin delivery which actually because of the flexion of the wrist is imparted spin in the opposite direction to the stock delivery. Also called a drifter.

Now to wrist spinners. Again two types. The right arm leggie and left arm chinaman. Again both are mirror opposites, otherwise they do the same thing. Use the wrist to impart spin as opposed to fingers which will, to a right handed batsmen, spin away for a leggie, and spin in like an off-break, for a chinaman bowler. I believe it was the prevalence of left arm chinaman bowlers in the turn of the century that necessitated the usage of the term "orthodox" for left arm finger spinners.

At any rate, a major variatiion (there are other minor ones) for a wrist spinner is the googly, which is bowled from the back of the hand and thus imparted spin opposite to the normal direction.

So having said that, with the exception of Warne, McGill and Kumble, all the major spinners in world cricket today are finger spinners. Rafique, Vettori, Giles, Panesar, Boje et all are left arm orthodox, while Murali and Bhajji are offies.

Jayed, while figuring out how to compose coherent sentences, you might want to take the above explanation into account before posting a poll

If you want nice pictorial explanations, check out the following links:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cric...ls/4173636.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cric...ls/4173584.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cric...ls/4173750.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cric...ls/4173812.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cric...ls/4174048.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cric...ls/4174244.stm

[Flipper]

We went through this topic many times. Yes, I think Rafique is one of the best SLAs. For the perpose of this poll, I didn't vote as I can't vote for Rafique over Vittori for some reasons, and at the same time I can't vote for Vitorri over Rafique for other reasons.

I found one of those threads where we discussed it before, and will quote a few people: (please note that these are few months old)

Originally posted by thebest
Statitically Rafiq is not so much behind Vettori. Spinners need Runs to be attacking. So in my view rafiq is better considering how little run he has to protect. He did not get the chance to bowl Bangladesh - the worst players of spin. Take aside Bangladesh from vetorri stat it is worse than Rafiq. Here are the stats There is tendency of our so called literate Bangladeshi to underestimate anything Bangladeshi. This thread is one of the glaring example.

Stat
Player Mat O R W BBI BBM Ave Econ SR 5 10
Rafiq 20 948.4 2453 68 6/77 7/116 36.07 2.58 83.7 5 0
Vettori 62 2607.1 6989 196 7/87 12/149 35.65 2.68 79.8 12 2
Vettori's stat without considering Bangladesh.
58 1657 137* 22.69 1 9 170 7/87 38.98 9 27 0

The comparative stat againest India supposedly best players of Spin is as follow

Player Mat O R W BBI BBM Ave Econ SR 5 10
Rafiq 3 143 389 9 4/156 4/156 43.22 2.72 95.3 0 0
Vettori 9 373.3 1059 19 6/127 6/149 55.73 2.83 117.9 1 0

Now consider who is better.


Edited on, July 25, 2005, 7:14 AM GMT, by thebest.

Originally posted by billah
Razab's analysis is right about Rafique. The idea that Rafiq is THE BEST SLA in the world came from this S. Rajesh article.

Rafique on the rise

At the time, some of Rafique's stats against India was actually better than that of Shane Warne.

Originally posted by Zunaid
I also point to this article when the Kiwi's visited us last year:

The SLA Wars: Rafique Vs Vettori

Link>>

[ammark]

Vettori. Rafique comes a close 2nd