Ian Pont and his Butterfly Effect - saaay what??? - Page 3

Night_wolf · #51 March 22, 2011, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian Pont
I am fast learning that some BD fans like to blame everything and everybody.

hahaha...well come to our world..but if u stick with us for 2 years u'll see after every good achievements these same fans will praise u like hell!

Leafs PWN · #52 March 22, 2011, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian Pont
I am fast learning that some BD fans like to blame everything and everybody.

That's not limited to just BD fans. Every sport, and every team has ppl like that in their fan base. Especially the giant fan bases.

Wanna see Mash back pretty bad. We need a veteran pacer in the lineup IMO.

betaar · #53 March 22, 2011, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian Pont
Not sure ROACH got ANY bounce to be honest on the Dhaka pitch...

Mpofu and Tsotsobe are of course GIANTS compared to our bowlers and you would expect them to extract more bounce from any pitch.

I am not quite sure what you expect from Shafiul if you are saying he couldn't do it against the big boys. He isn't a machine, he's human. And he's not ranked number one in the world or even in the top 50. He's a young kid learning how to bowl and the same goes for Rubel.

I am really going to defend my fast bowlers here because they get a raw deal. They have had to live with a rotation policy before my arrival where they don't get an extended run in the side. Nazmul for example, hasn't played since October 5th in an ODI (only bowled 4 overs in a WC warm up).

We are asking our quicks to perform like seasoned professionals from other teams but they are still trying to get used to playing regularly and being giving the responsibility to perform and not whipped off to be replaced by a spinner yet again.

When I arrived I was told the fast bowlers were not very good and they leaked a huge amount of runs at the start and at the end. They could not be trusted I was told.

Shafiul and Rubel have variously bowled good spells in my time here and Rubel in particular has been unlucky not to get more wickets. So i feel progress is being made. Steady progress, not a 'flash in the pan' progress that is a fluke. It's a steady climb and we are making it. That means they will often get things wrong on the BIGGEST STAGE OF ALL. If they didn't then they would be in the top 10 bowlers in the world, which they aren't at the moment.

Coach, don't mean to badger but when I mentioned Roach I was referring to his ability to seam the ball in and out.

I know Tsotsobe is tall, 6.5' but I didn't know Mpofu was that much taller than our bowlers. When I mentioned their names I was referring to their ability of extracting extra bounce because they were able to land the ball on the stitch and got more bounce than what their respective height contributed. During the Zim series, Mpofu showed great ability nipping the ball in and out at will....it was a great bit of bowling performance to see on our flat tracks which I'd love to see our pacers doing more often.....some thing Zaheer Khan is able to do in most matches.

Anyways, I don't think you need to defend our pace bowlers as the improvement curve it self is the biggest proof.

One should hope that your contract gets extended soon so you can start working with our pacers, especailly Mash. and improve them to world class quality so there's no auto pass for spinners in our team. Nothing will make me happier to see some away series where our pacers come out on top. Thanks for your time.

Prithviraj · #54 March 22, 2011, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian Pont
....That bolded italicised part above made NO sense by the way.....

I didn't write the article in the newspaper about the butterfly - I was interviewed about it. How can I speak of it too early when the journalist saw it being bowled and asked what it was? You make it sound like I started the media campaign about the butterfly stuff.

I don't write the newspapers and control the media....

I know you want to seemingly blame me that we are out of the WC without the butterfly being bowled and it's my fault the fans throw stones at the buses and cause a major security breach.

I am fast learning that some BD fans like to blame everything and everybody.

Gosh... Ian .. I am an Indian but a big fan of BD cricket... but I am just surprised to see coaching stuff spending so much of time and effort on fan forum... it works both way I guess... one way it is refreshing to see that team official is directly communicating with the fan base but on the other hand typically it make sense not to engage verbatim debate with fans... because as a bowling coach of national team .. it just dilutes the credibility .. just my 2 cents.. I am sure you are way more experienced on a professional circle... than me.. however after following through the thread of your posts.. I think you might come out as over-selling...again not to show any disrespect but .. coming from a complete outsider point of view...

plus the butterfly delivery... if someone can't deliver it during the most important tournament.. that comes once in every 4 years.. whats the use of it? hopefully in future we will get to see some versions of it...

Rakib · #55 March 22, 2011, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian Pont
I am fast learning that some BD fans like to blame everything and everybody.

This is my first post on BC, I have been an avid reader here for the last 4 years but feel the need now to defend against a few of the comments being made here against coach Pont.

Yes coach, unfortunately its in our culture to blame, pass the blame, not be objective, turn a human to demi-god and take the same person to the lowest abyss... we are an emotional bunch...

The only two bowlers that trained with Ian and got to play in matches are Rubel and Shafiul. Surely if you have followed their pre-IAN era games and compare to the recent ones there is marked improvement in line, length and consistency. Yes there have been the odd games with errors due to pressure, but what did you really expect... world beaters like Wasim or Mcgrath in such a short time.... Its not like we have had great fast bowlers in our history who are coaching and have pace academies littered around the country where the Rubels and Shafiuls could learn the basics... Coach Pont has been teaching them stuffs that budding pacers get taught at youth level in countries such as AUS, ENG, even INDIA. Please undertand that this is a process and will take time as we develop institutions where more BD coaches can impart correct knowledge in the art of pace bowling....

If you want to see consistency then surely the few months that the coach has spent is not enough to breed such, yet 11 wins in 16 games says a lot...

Cut a break please, none of us are perfect and if each of the negative commentators were to question their own professional lives its easy to see that we all strive for perfection but cant always get there..... Lets be objective and judge the coach on the results he has achieved so far (which is great in the short time he had)... please treat the coach as a normal human being rather than nitpick every single comment and every single move that doesnt conform to our opinions....

My apologies if you feel my post was harsh, I certainly dont want to offend anyone and understand that you have the best of intentions for BD cricket just like all of us...

amar11432 · #56 March 22, 2011, 01:00 PM

Quote:

plus the butterfly delivery... if someone can't deliver it during the most important tournament.. that comes once in every 4 years.. whats the use of it? hopefully in future we will get to see some versions of it...

Agree, plus after Shafiul's bowling debacle against India, steps should have been taken to increase his confidence. Bowling well against minnows and then completely losing it against a top opposition is a serious flaw. This should have been taken care of earlier.

Ian Pont · #57 March 22, 2011, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prithviraj
Gosh... Ian .. I am an Indian but a big fan of BD cricket... but I am just surprised to see coaching stuff spending so much of time and effort on fan forum... it works both way I guess... one way it is refreshing to see that team official is directly communicating with the fan base but on the other hand typically it make sense not to engage verbatim debate with fans... because as a bowling coach of national team .. it just dilutes the credibility .. just my 2 cents.. I am sure you are way more experienced on a professional circle... than me.. however after following through the thread of your posts.. I think you might come out as over-selling...again not to show any disrespect but .. coming from a complete outsider point of view...

plus the butterfly delivery... if someone can't deliver it during the most important tournament.. that comes once in every 4 years.. whats the use of it? hopefully in future we will get to see some versions of it...

I have to strongly disagree with you about being on this forum.

I feel it ADDS credibility to engage with fans because people know I am human like them, have feelings like them, am a supporter like them and not stuck in some ivory tower thinking I am better than everyone else.

Yes I know cricket probably far better than people on here but we all have opinions (even you

) and they are to be respected.

I hope I try to rationalize and explain my view point and not 'over-sell' as you call it? Fans deserve a full answer and I am not afraid of the truth if I can reveal it to them.

Many fans do not fully appreciate the nuances of the game and sometimes say things that simply are not correct. But I will always defend a fans' right to say it

PS> oh and yes ..what IS the point of learning a new skill in a few weeks if you cannot use it at the WC. I will instruct the bowlers to forget all about it.

Ian Pont · #58 March 22, 2011, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amar11432
Agree, plus after Shafiul's bowling debacle against India, steps should have been taken to increase his confidence. Bowling well against minnows and then completely losing it against a top opposition is a serious flaw. This should have been taken care of earlier.

Ok guys... if this is a serious viewpoint then BD cricket is in for a long, hard and bumpy ride.

amar11432 · #59 March 22, 2011, 01:12 PM

^^ Sorry but who is RAKIB?

betaar · #60 March 22, 2011, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian Pont
Ok guys... if this is a serious viewpoint then BD cricket is in for a long, hard and bumpy ride.

Oh Ian, you have no idea whata ride we have been riding for the last 10-12 years. but as long as you are there to guide, I am sure the ride should get smoother, at least for the bowlers.

shuziburo · #61 March 22, 2011, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian Pont
I am fast learning that some BD fans like to blame everything and everybody.

You got it, Ian. It took you a while, but you finally got it. In contrast, when you succeed, they raise you heaven. So, the payoff is high as well.

shuziburo · #62 March 22, 2011, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian Pont
PS> oh and yes ..what IS the point of learning a new skill in a few weeks if you cannot use it at the WC. I will instruct the bowlers to forget all about it.

shuziburo · #63 March 22, 2011, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian Pont
Ok guys... if this is a serious viewpoint then BD cricket is in for a long, hard and bumpy ride.

We had a lot of hope for this WC, but clearly the road is going to be long and bumpy. We'll be along for the ride no matter what.

RazabQ · #64 March 22, 2011, 02:10 PM

Mod advisory: Please restrict your criticisms to the message and not the messenger.

Prithviraj · #65 March 22, 2011, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian Pont
PS> oh and yes ..what IS the point of learning a new skill in a few weeks if you cannot use it at the WC. I will instruct the bowlers to forget all about it.

I apologize... but if we have a secret weapon that I want to exploit ... i want to do that at that world cup.... i might be a failure but I gotta keep on trying it... learning a couple of weeks before the world cup...? that why the expectation build up...? I remember after the Ind match comments were made that it will be coming up during next matches..since during IND match Sehwag went after him right from first ball...........not sure but did we try it when BD tail was up .. during Holland match..?

I remember Mendis completely destroying the Indian batting line up and winning the Asia cup final for Srilanka... you get a short window of opportunity to do that. now .. all the Indian batsmen appeared to figure out how to handle Mendis and he is sometimes kept out of India match.. ... by the time next world cup comes hopefully skill sets will be in preparation for more than couple of weeks or may be we should use butterfly only during next world cup ..

going by the instructions of Mods.. I am just disagreeing with message not the messenger... also all the BD fans ...do not think I am out there to disparage your coaching stuff.. however I do not feel equally obligated to agree with all the statements...

*AsifTheManRahman* · #66 March 22, 2011, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian Pont
BD cricket is in for a long, hard and bumpy ride.

It's always been like that, ever since we started playing cricket. Nothing new.

You're the coach - make it smooth.

Prithviraj · #67 March 22, 2011, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leafs PWN
That's not limited to just BD fans. Every sport, and every team has ppl like that in their fan base. Especially the giant fan bases.

Wanna see Mash back pretty bad. We need a veteran pacer in the lineup IMO.

I agree... subcontinent fan makes you hero and literally worship you if you win them a single series...... (build temples, name their child with player's name and shower you with wealth ...and what not.. ) .. the same fan base will throw shoes, burn effigies...and make you blame for their fights with their wives...if you loose a single match.....
thats how sub-continent work... so people who are ready to bask in the glory of success should be ready to take the criticism no matter how much illogical it seems.. with equal panache...

Shoinik · #68 March 22, 2011, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prithviraj
I apologize... but if we have a secret weapon that I want to exploit ... i want to do that at that world cup.... i might be a failure but I gotta keep on trying it... learning a couple of weeks before the world cup...? that why the expectation build up...? I remember after the Ind match comments were made that it will be coming up during next matches..since during IND match Sehwag went after him right from first ball...........not sure but did we try it when BD tail was up .. during Holland match..?

I started coming to BC again during the World Cup. They took some wonderful initiatives to support our cricket team. There have been a lot of criticisms (fair and unfair) in the last few days. Usually, I just go by them but since you are directly interacting with our Coach, I had to make this post.

Ian already said why the butterfly was not bowled.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian Pont
I cannot force people to bowl the butterfly and the bowlers decide when it's right to try it if they wish.

There is no point indulging in the same topic. You need to master the secret weapon first and then feel confident enough to use it in the match. The Coach did not create the hype.

We can analyse and over-analyse things but at the end of the day, we do it at the comfort of our own home (and everyone knows it is easier said than done

). Barring two/three players and some team combinations, I still have a lot of faith in this team. The pressure got to them in the end but we (the fans) and the media are also responsible for their downfall.

People who burn effigies, throw stones are highly immature and lack the education to be civil. We should never encourage or justify such behaviours. Srilanka is also in the subcontinent and their fans are far more well mannered. The least we can do is match them in that respect.

Peace.

Tendulkar_Mcgrath · #69 March 22, 2011, 06:19 PM

Ian, come on coach...........these same fans will keep your photos in their wallet , if your pace bowlers does way better than this? So why to bother...

**Zunaid** · #70 March 22, 2011, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AsifTheManRahman
It's always been like that, ever since we started playing cricket. Nothing new.

You're the coach - make it smooth.

Make him "The Coach"?

Posted via BC Mobile Edition

lamisa · #71 March 23, 2011, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian Pont
....That bolded italicised part above made NO sense by the way.....

I didn't write the article in the newspaper about the butterfly - I was interviewed about it. How can I speak of it too early when the journalist saw it being bowled and asked what it was? You make it sound like I started the media campaign about the butterfly stuff.

I don't write the newspapers and control the media....

I know you want to seemingly blame me that we are out of the WC without the butterfly being bowled and it's my fault the fans throw stones at the buses and cause a major security breach.

I am fast learning that some BD fans like to blame everything and everybody.

i don't want to and am not blame you for anything.u have helped our pacers a lot and ofcourse i acknowledge it.

as for me being positive about our cricket but at the same time criticising parts of it,of course i bother to do it becase i love bd cricket so much and have high hopes from it. i truly believe that we can be at the top one day and hence i speak of the aspects where we can improve, which one may also call criticism of parts of bd cricket

BASSMAN · #72 March 25, 2011, 02:53 PM

Firstly Ian Pont thanks for your efforts with the bowlers. IMO you have had a positive impact on the "quickies"

I used to despise Rubel for his wayward bowling. But now he has significantly improved his bowling in the past few months and bowls more intelligently.

Shafiul has also made many observable adjustments, and I am quite pleased that he doesnt toss the ball in the air before he starts his bowling line up.

A few questions does cross my mind: Do the quickes have a say where fielders are placed?
Has Shadat Hossain made any progress?
Can we look forward to any new World Class Bowlers?

Best wishes for the future and I have you stay a few more years to help Bangladesh Cricket.

SS · #73 March 25, 2011, 02:56 PM

There is already a question thread for asking question to Ian.
http://www.banglacricket.com/alochon...ad.php?t=35512

A little search before posting any questions will save coach a lot of time and also will be relevant.

cricket_dorshok · #74 March 25, 2011, 03:20 PM

so, failure (against big boys) aslei sob mohapurush typical bangali hoye jai: amare 9 nomber team, amader bowler gula world er 50 er moddhe o nai, amader long bumpy road ahead, etc etc.......
amagao Taklu da to ai montro diye 4 bochor katai dilo. ar 'uni' ekhonei suru kore dise!

roman · #75 March 25, 2011, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cricket_dorshok
so, failure (against big boys) aslei sob mohapurush typical bangali hoye jai: amare 9 nomber team, amader bowler gula world er 50 er moddhe o nai, amader long bumpy road ahead, etc etc.......
amagao Taklu da to ai montro diye 4 bochor katai dilo. ar 'uni' ekhonei suru kore dise!

Ekhon nirob thakai Uttom