The greatest fast bowlers of all time?

[Gowza]

let's start by listing the best form each country and discuss from there.

West Indies: hall, roberts, holding, croft, garner, marshall, walsh, ambrose, bishop. notable mentions are griffith, clarke, gilchrist, daniel, stephenson, patterson.

Australia: lillee, lindwall, davidson, mcgrath, miller, thomson

Sri Lanka: malinga, vaas

South Africa: peter pollock, shaun pollock, donald, steyn. notable mentions philander, Vince van der Bijl (one of the best to never play test cricket).

New Zealand: Hadlee. notable mention bond.

India: dev, nissar

Bangladesh: mortaza

Zimbabwe: streak

England: larwood, trueman, statham, tyson, snow, willis. might leave barnes out since it's disputed whether he was a pacer or a spinner.

Pakistan: waqar, imran, wasim, akhtar, asif, fazal mahmood. notables zahid

if i've missed anyone don't hesitate to bring up names.

[Roey Haque]

I'll just stay with Bd here. Okay?

Monjurul Islam could really swing the ball. His action was mad cool as well. I always imagined our team with him and mashrafe spearheading our bowling attack.

[Gowza]

just to be clear we are talking test cricket here.

now with no disrespect i believe we can cut streak, dev, nissar, mortaza, akhtar, asif, vaas and malinga. if anyone has arguments as to cutting these guys then please bring it up and tell us why they should be in the running.

normally i would cut thomson but the fact that he was so fast and partnered with lillee he was part of one of the best pace duo's ever he gets a look in, i mean if you want someone for pure pace he'd be your man i wouldn't personally pick him as a great but i can see an argument for him.

[Night_wolf]

if we are discussing about The greatest fast bowler of all time i think we can drop bowlers from BD,Zim and SL out of this discussion totally. Ind could have also been dropped but kapil saved them

[Zunaid]

You can't really do this, but I can name my top 10:

McGrath
Marshall
Holding
Walsh
Akram
Younis
Hadlee
Donald
Garner
Imran

Never saw Trueman but he migh have displaced one of the above.

[Ajfar]

Originally Posted by Night_wolf
if we are discussing about The greatest fast bowler of all time i think we can drop bowlers from BD,Zim and SL out of this discussion totally. Ind could have also been dropped but kapil saved them

Thats true, but you can't overlook Vaas completely. Sure comparing him to some of the other greats might not be the best comparison, but he carried the srilankan pace attack pretty much all by himself for the most of his career and did a pretty good job at it too. That has to count for something.

[Gowza]

Originally Posted by Zunaid
You can't really do this, but I can name my top 10:

McGrath
Marshall
Holding
Walsh
Akram
Younis
Hadlee
Donald
Garner
Imran

Never saw Trueman but he migh have displaced one of the above.

it is really tough to do even a top 10, i mean there are 7 0r 8 WI fast bowlers alone who contend for a top 10 place. then pakistan have waqar, wasim and imran who could easily be in a top 10.

i'm glad you named donald, i think he's a bit under-rated, i know he's thought highly of but he definitely pushes his name for a top 10 place and i think most dismiss him and don't put him quite with that crowd.

surprisingly i think trueman is the best of the englishmen. tyson was fast and had a great record, larwood was fast, snow was a great bowler but really it's quite tough to find a place for an englishman in the top 10 imo.

i'd narrow it down to these guys (in no order):

1 roberts
2 holding
3 garner
4 marshall
5 walsh
6 ambrose
7 croft (reckon he's underrated because his career wasn't the longest but average of 23, strike rate of 49, 4.6 wickets a match is real quality).
9 lillee
10 mcgrath
11 donald
12 hadlee
13 waqar
14 imran
15 steyn

really tough to cut names but maybe i'd take steyn off because he's still playing and not finished yet, croft because no one else rates him as an all timer, that would drop it to 13 but from their it's really tough.

[Gowza]

Originally Posted by Ajfar
Thats true, but you can't overlook Vaas completely. Sure comparing him to some of the other greats might not be the best comparison, but he carried the srilankan pace attack pretty much all by himself for the most of his career and did a pretty good job at it too. That has to count for something.

vaas was a very good bowler but a top 10 all time? pretty tough to rate him in the top 10 imo.

[Dilscoop]

I'm a n00b on this subject. But from what I've seen in my lifetime:

Waqar-McGrath opening followed by Wasim. They can and will kill in all 3 formats. But for thrill and crowd riser I'd get Brett Lee, Shoaib Akhtar and Lasith Malinga/Dale Styen

[Gowza]

Originally Posted by Dilscoop
I'm a n00b on this subject. But from what I've seen in my lifetime:

Waqar-McGrath opening followed by Wasim. They can and will kill in all 3 formats. But for thrill and crowd riser I'd get Brett Lee, Shoaib Akhtar and Lasith Malinga/Dale Styen

i always enjoy watching malinga bowl. for me waqar in his pomp is the most exciting fast bowler to watch. mcgrath is a very good bowler, one of the greatest no doubt but the thing about mcgrath is i didn't really find him that interesting to watch, he wasn't especially fasst, he didn't seam or swing the ball too much he just niggled at the off stump at a good length, decent pace, awkward bounce height and that was his thing and it worked tremendously. but for me there are soo many more more exciting fast bowlers to watch. for me the WI pacers, the pakistani's (waqar and imran) and donald are probably the most exciting to watch.

as far as a bowling unit waqar, Mcgrath and wasim would be killer.

i wouldn't mind an attack of waqar, donald and lillee or maybe marshall or even imran instead of lillee. i can imagine the pace of waqar with his movement reverse and late swing and the pace of donald with his line and length, bounce and aggression wouldn't be a scary duo to face. then add lillee or marshall two of the most complete fast bowlers ever.

[BengaliPagol]

Maybe Philander might be with the best at the rate he is going.

[Gowza]

Originally Posted by BengaliPagol
Maybe Philander might be with the best at the rate he is going.

this is true, something i've contemplated but he hasn't played enough and he's so early on in his career we don't really know how he will turn out. steyn we have an indication because he's played for a lengthy time already. but i am a philander supporter.

[BengaliPagol]

McGrath showed that you dont have to be an express bowler to be the best. Line and length is more important.

[Night_wolf]

Originally Posted by Ajfar
Thats true, but you can't overlook Vaas completely. Sure comparing him to some of the other greats might not be the best comparison, but he carried the srilankan pace attack pretty much all by himself for the most of his career and did a pretty good job at it too. That has to count for something.

vass was great, Tbh he was one of the best ODI bowlers of all time and he wasn't a noob in test cricket either. But if you want to pick the greatest fast bowler test cricket is the place too look IMHO. and though vass was good but he wasn't great in test cricket..thats why i dropped him out of discussion, thats why malinga isn't there too

[Gowza]

i agree mcgrath showed you don't need express pace to be the best, but if you're making a top 10 i think it comes into consideration, i mean the more weapons the better imo as long as they are effective. i think when you're looking at narrowing down the greats you take stats first the most telling being average, strike-rate and wickets per match ratio, also where they took wickets (lillee's downfall is he didn't do amazingly in certain places, same with ambrose), then after you've narrowed them down with stats you start looking at their weapons.

also hadlee had to carry the NZ pace attack and he truly is an all time great, he didn't have the best spinner ever with him either as vaas did (murali).

[Gowza]

Originally Posted by Night_wolf
vass was great, Tbh he was one of the best ODI bowlers of all time and he wasn't a noob in test cricket either. But if you want to pick the greatest fast bowler test cricket is the place too look IMHO. and though vass was good but he wasn't great in test cricket..thats why i dropped him out of discussion, thats why malinga isn't there too

and also longevity plays a role to that's why players like bond isn't being considered because he didn't really play to much and philander isn't really in the discussion as he hasn't been playing test cricket/international cricket long enough to know whether he can keep it up.

[Naimul_Hd]

My Top 15 (not any particular order):

Dennis Lillee
Wasim
Jeff Thomson
Marshall
Holding
Kapil Dev
Walsh
McGrath
Waqar
Hadlee
Donald
J. Garner
Imran Khan
Curtly Ambrose
Dale Steyn

[Gowza]

Originally Posted by Naimul_Hd
My Top 15 (not any particular order):

Dennis Lillee
Wasim
Jeff Thomson
Marshall
Holding
Kapil Dev
Walsh
McGrath
Waqar
Hadlee
Donald
J. Garner
Imran Khan
Curtly Ambrose
Dale Steyn

tomson and dev in your top 15? what's your reasoning for them being in the top 15 over others?

[Naimul_Hd]

Originally Posted by Gowza
tomson and dev in your top 15? what's your reasoning for them being in the top 15 over others?

You are questioning 'Jeff Thomson' ???? He is one of the fastest bowlers ever produced and played in Test Cricket. Dennis Lillee and Thomson was one of the deadliest pair of all time along with Wasim and Akram. He's not in Top 15, rather in Top 10, i may say.

and for Kapil, my reasoning is the same as Ajfar mentioned for Vaas:

Sure comparing him to some of the other greats might not be the best comparison, but he carried the srilankan pace attack pretty much all by himself for the most of his career and did a pretty good job at it too. That has to count for something.

[Gowza]

Originally Posted by Naimul_Hd
You are questioning 'Jeff Thomson' ???? He is one of the fastest bowlers ever produced and played in Test Cricket. Dennis Lillee and Thomson was one of the deadliest pair of all time along with Wasim and Akram. He's not in Top 15, rather in Top 10, i may say.

and for Kapil, my reasoning is the same as Ajfar mentioned for Vaas:

i know tomson was part of one of the dealiest pairs, i mentioned it myself erly in the thread but we aren't picking players as a duo or a unit we're picking them as individuals and i'm not sure thomo warrants to be ranked that high as an individual, sure he was fast and scary but there are a lot of other fast bowlers with better averages, better strike rates, more wickets per match and were still fast and intimidating for batsmen.

as far as the dev thing, well dev and vaas were both really good bowlers but not in that top echelon, hadlee was in similar circumstances and he excelled and is one of the best of all time but he did a lot better than vaas and dev.

[Gowza]

frank tyson was considered possibly the fastest ever, richie benaud said he's the fastest he's ever seen, and has great stats way better than thomo's so why not pick tyson instead? the fastest aren't always the best. when you're rating all timers you have to take both stats and their physical ability's on board. i mean if someone was picking an all time XI they probably wouldn't pick a bowler averaging 28 and a strike rate of 52 even if he's the quickest because there are other fast bowlers who have averages in the low 20s with strike rates in the 40s.

[mar umpire]

Originally Posted by Roey Haque
I'll just stay with Bd here. Okay?

Monjurul Islam could really swing the ball. His action was mad cool as well. I always imagined our team with him and mashrafe spearheading our bowling attack.

My dad was his coach in his teens and junior years-good guy, knew him well (if he's the same one we're thinking of)

[Gowza]

Originally Posted by Gowza
it is really tough to do even a top 10, i mean there are 7 0r 8 WI fast bowlers alone who contend for a top 10 place. then pakistan have waqar, wasim and imran who could easily be in a top 10.

i'm glad you named donald, i think he's a bit under-rated, i know he's thought highly of but he definitely pushes his name for a top 10 place and i think most dismiss him and don't put him quite with that crowd.

surprisingly i think trueman is the best of the englishmen. tyson was fast and had a great record, larwood was fast, snow was a great bowler but really it's quite tough to find a place for an englishman in the top 10 imo.

i'd narrow it down to these guys (in no order):

1 roberts
2 holding
3 garner
4 marshall
5 walsh
6 ambrose
7 croft (reckon he's underrated because his career wasn't the longest but average of 23, strike rate of 49, 4.6 wickets a match is real quality).
9 lillee
10 mcgrath
11 donald
12 hadlee
13 waqar
14 imran
15 steyn

really tough to cut names but maybe i'd take steyn off because he's still playing and not finished yet, croft because no one else rates him as an all timer, that would drop it to 13 but from their it's really tough.

Thinking about it more I guess I would cut Roberts, steyn, and croft to drop it to a top 12, McGrath, lillee and hadlee fight for the #10 spot

[Gowza]

Hadlee was a great but I think his rating went up because he could bat. Who to pick out of McGrath and lillee? McGrath had impeccable line and length but lillee was one of the most complete fast bowlers ever, maybe only 2nd to Marshall

[World Champs]

The greatest fast bowlers that i have seen are

Mcgrath
Dale Steyn
Akram
Waqar
Donald
Lee
Shoaib
Shane bond
Ambrose

but the greatest of all of them is vinay Kumar.