For Applications which is favorable - Microsoft software/OS or Sun/UNix/Linux

[SS]

hello ppl,

recently Microsoft came up with new VS2005 and also
their servers(exchange, SQL Server) became more robust
and powerful

but it seams to be that they are trying to take the same
steps like Sun or Unix/Linux free software foundation's
approach of attracting lobbyist and professional.

How you rate it? Which software is still reliable for
corporate develeopment? I know security wise Linux/unix
is unparallel but what's the hype about new
.NET arrival?

Your thoughtful advice on the following really appreciated it would be great if the advice considers the high effectiveness
of the system and low cost to build and maintain it. thanks

Application development platform - ?
(small business in future it might be robust and also compatable to different applications)

Servers-?
web and office development software-?

is there anything else that i should consider??

[Nasif]

Microsoft's money plays a big role in anything they bring out. In the .Net 2005, they packaged huge amount of modules. Some of these were developed by other companies for .Net 2003. MS just went and bought those companies and packaged their components as part of 2005. Thus .Net 2005 has become very powerful and easy to code.

MS is also focusing on the handheld pda market. .Net 2005 has very easy coding architecture for Windows CE devices. Don't be surprised to see a Windows CE overflow in cell phones and pdas. From developers point of it is just cost effective to go .Net route for these reasons.

On web dev front there is huge support on both camp of ASP .net and PHP. ASP's main problem being it requires IIS, which has really bad history of security problems. Here is one nice article comparing both (although bit older):
http://www.oracle.com/technology/pub.../hull_asp.html

LAMP (Linux/Apache/MySQL/PHP) architecture is still a formidable force. Our very own BC runs in LAMP. From my view PHP 5 is powerful. Combined with mySQL 5 it is really hard to beat. Its speed and security is very high. mySQL added stored procedure feature in version 5 which is a major advancement. Linux and Apache is unbeatable for web server solution.

PHP 5 is integrating .Net component (still partly experimental and I don't think anyone uses it for real world apps). I don't know if this will really take off or not, but if it does then PHP will take another big leap. Some links to explore .net stuff in PHP Using .Net in PHP and PHP 5's .Net functions.

Personally I like LAMP. It is still the best, unless you are completely tied to .Net development.

MS is in your living room (as in XBOX/XBOX360), in your phone/pda, in your laptop, in your office computer, in your home computer, in your email (Hotmail) ... so on and so forth. MS ->Who are we gonna conquer today

Edited on, March 8, 2006, 4:07 PM GMT, by Nasif.

[Orpheus]

out of topic but Nasif bhai do you know how to edit a .Net program? I have a program which occasionally gives me ad and forces me to click on it, otherwise locks me out of using it....

I wanted to edit the source code.

I can see them via .NEt decompiler Dis# or Reflector but can't really edit? Please tell me if you know what I have to use to play around with the source code.

Thanks

[Nasif]

Not sure about the solution. Never really needed to decompile any .net stuff. You can try Salamander (which is commercial decompiler) মাটির নিচে খুজলে পাইতেও পার।

If you really want to go at it then try IDA Pro disassembler. It will be in assmebly hehehe

[SS]

Originally posted by Nasif
Microsoft's money plays a big role in anything they bring out. In the .Net 2005, they packaged huge amount of modules. Some of these were developed by other companies for .Net 2003. MS just went and bought those companies and packaged their components as part of 2005. Thus .Net 2005 has become very powerful and easy to code.

MS is also focusing on the handheld pda market. .Net 2005 has very easy coding architecture for Windows CE devices. Don't be surprised to see a Windows CE overflow in cell phones and pdas. From developers point of it is just cost effective to go .Net route for these reasons.

On web dev front there is huge support on both camp of ASP .net and PHP. ASP's main problem being it requires IIS, which has really bad history of security problems. Here is one nice article comparing both (although bit older):
http://www.oracle.com/technology/pub.../hull_asp.html

LAMP (Linux/Apache/MySQL/PHP) architecture is still a formidable force. Our very own BC runs in LAMP. From my view PHP 5 is powerful. Combined with mySQL 5 it is really hard to beat. Its speed and security is very high. mySQL added stored procedure feature in version 5 which is a major advancement. Linux and Apache is unbeatable for web server solution.

PHP 5 is integrating .Net component (still partly experimental and I don't think anyone uses it for real world apps). I don't know if this will really take off or not, but if it does then PHP will take another big leap. Some links to explore .net stuff in PHP Using .Net in PHP and PHP 5's .Net functions.

Personally I like LAMP. It is still the best, unless you are completely tied to .Net development.

MS is in your living room (as in XBOX/XBOX360), in your phone/pda, in your laptop, in your office computer, in your home computer, in your email (Hotmail) ... so on and so forth. MS ->Who are we gonna conquer today

Edited on, March 8, 2006, 4:07 PM GMT, by Nasif.

Thank you nasif bhai...best summarized response I got
Thank you.

the problem is as you mentioned MS .NET is everywhere
but their monopolystic strategy even reflects in their express
version for the lobbyist. I can't afford to pay 800 bucks for VSTO 2005.

But what I see in office lot of office applications.

I guess now i find that moving to MS .NET leaving GNU,freebsd world was whole lota different, which also
implies that I am a "ghada". Got carried away with MS hypes.

[Hatebreed]

I'd still go for Linux/Apache which in my opinion the most stable web server... MySql can smoothly handle millions of data while PHP is possibly the best programming language for the web, it processes fast and always improving... Microsoft's .NET technology has potential but it is still a prospect

[Orpheus]

Nasif bhai thanks I will try those. that program I am using is made by a student I think and it would be a shame if I can't alter the program...

If i fail, I will put it up for a challenge in BC and prize of $5.

[SS]

I am trying to get VSTO 2005 for Office...this is tremendously high pricy
Nasif bhai or other computer guru could you please give me an idea if developing office applications using VSTO is a good idea. I tried it it's awesome IDE remindes me of Jbuilder.

thank u all for your suggestion.

[zakirc]

Hmmm .... I wish I had the knowledge to decypher the contents of this thread

[cluster11]

I try to get the best of both worlds. Fedora (Linux) works great for freeware apps as long as you are willing to devote some time in R&D/maintenance. Windows (2000 Server or XP Pro) may work as well too and has many plug&play apps (espeically with SQL Server as RDBMS) but can be pricey. Keeping your apps Java based maybe one option so you can switch to any platform as necessary. Like LAMP you can have a stable implementation with Tomcat/MySQL/JSP that will work in all platforms.

[bharat]

Originally posted by Hatebreed
I'd still go for Linux/Apache which in my opinion the most stable web server... MySql can smoothly handle millions of data while PHP is possibly the best programming language for the web, it processes fast and always improving... Microsoft's .NET technology has potential but it is still a prospect

I agree with your " Linux/Apache" being the best ..but cant agree with PHP ..
Yes , PHP is good ..only if you are looking at a small scale web application ...

But if you are looking at highly scalable application ..nothing like J2ee or .NET for that matter ...

Being in this field for some time ..I would suggest that you look into either one of the above ...(assuming you just started your carrier..) ..lots of potential in these ...

cheers !

[Arnab]

I agree with your " Linux/Apache" being the best ..but cant agree with PHP ..
Yes , PHP is good ..only if you are looking at a small scale web application ...

Wikipedia seems to be doing fine with LAMP (linux Apache Mysql PHP). And it is one of the top-20 most visited websites in the world.

[cluster11]

I think it depends on what is your business needs when considering the solution. High traffic on a web server is just one of many parameters in a system. For a website with contents within a single server, even if it is high traffic, Apache does just fine and LAMP is an ideal solution. But so is IIS-ASP-MySQL-WinXPPro. Many large government organization (i.e. NASA) uses MySQL and Linux.

However PHP or any other scripting language may not be an ideal total solution for systems involving many server, fast performance and reliable transactions. As someone pointed above, those typically require a message broker (i.e. JMS, ICS, Businessware etc.) on .NET or J2EE platform. Of course PHP, ASP or JSP can still be part of it like a customer-facing solution, but most such large systems rely on a variety of servers and platforms and a middleware as a broker. There is also probably the familiarity or friendly factor. i.e. ASP will be a good choice for server pages on a IIS-SQL server based solution simply because Microsoft apps take advantage of each other. Similiarly JSP would be easier on a J2EE framework than PHP/ASP because it will be based on same language as the backend.

If someone is starting on a basic web based app IIS/ASP will probably the fastest way to deploy. LAMP will be more flexible if the user is familiar with Unix.

[Hatebreed]

Originally posted by bharat

I agree with your " Linux/Apache" being the best ..but cant agree with PHP ..
Yes , PHP is good ..only if you are looking at a small scale web application ...

But if you are looking at highly scalable application ..nothing like J2ee or .NET for that matter ...

Being in this field for some time ..I would suggest that you look into either one of the above ...(assuming you just started your carrier..) ..lots of potential in these ...

cheers !

I'm majoring in Internet Computing where Java/PHP/C++ are the top programming languages used.. I've done a little bit of ASP in college... to be honest, PHP is just as easy to code + has endless possibilities for years to come... similarly, high-paid jobs in the UK has more demand for java, believe it or not

but surely if the situation demands, I'll try expanding my knowledge into other languages and platforms

[bharat]

I'm majoring in Internet Computing where Java/PHP/C++ are the top programming languages used.. I've done a little bit of ASP in college... to be honest, PHP is just as easy to code + has endless possibilities for years to come... similarly, high-paid jobs in the UK has more demand for java, believe it or not

Not suprised that Java is the highest paid job in UK (in US too ..) ..If I were you (since u'r still studying ..and have great options) I would pursue Java ( J2ee) than PHP ...yes PHP is easier to code but trust me dude.. J2EE (or .NET)is the way to go for a long sustaining (ofcourse rewarding in terms of monies) carrier

cheers

[bharat]

Originally posted by cluster11
I think it depends on what is your business needs when considering the solution. High traffic on a web server is just one of many parameters in a system. For a website with contents within a single server, even if it is high traffic, Apache does just fine and LAMP is an ideal solution. But so is IIS-ASP-MySQL-WinXPPro. Many large government organization (i.e. NASA) uses MySQL and Linux.

However PHP or any other scripting language may not be an ideal total solution for systems involving many server, fast performance and reliable transactions. As someone pointed above, those typically require a message broker (i.e. JMS, ICS, Businessware etc.) on .NET or J2EE platform. Of course PHP, ASP or JSP can still be part of it like a customer-facing solution, but most such large systems rely on a variety of servers and platforms and a middleware as a broker. There is also probably the familiarity or friendly factor. i.e. ASP will be a good choice for server pages on a IIS-SQL server based solution simply because Microsoft apps take advantage of each other. Similiarly JSP would be easier on a J2EE framework than PHP/ASP because it will be based on same language as the backend.

If someone is starting on a basic web based app IIS/ASP will probably the fastest way to deploy. LAMP will be more flexible if the user is familiar with Unix.

Agree with you completely ...

Scalability is the buzzword now !
Things are very dynamic now (webservices ...etc ) J2ee framework is flexible to incorporate new things ...the same thing cannot be said abt PHP though ...

Perl is a classic case in here ...it used to be "the" language for the web (Perl-cgi) ..cant say it is dying ..but it is going in the wrong direction for sure ..
I predict the same for PHP ....
Also ,Both Java and .NET are backed by the biggies I think there lies the difference

[Hatebreed]

Originally posted by bharat

Not suprised that Java is the highest paid job in UK (in US too ..) ..If I were you (since u'r still studying ..and have great options) I would pursue Java ( J2ee) than PHP ...yes PHP is easier to code but trust me dude.. J2EE (or .NET)is the way to go for a long sustaining (ofcourse rewarding in terms of monies) carrier

cheers

you see I favour PHP for its popularity in web development.. so I'm not yet an application developer of enterprise level... but surely J2EE will definitely be my choice, at least until .NET hits big in another 5 years.. I need to complete my education first

Edited on, March 14, 2006, 1:14 AM GMT, by Hatebreed.

[AsifTheManRahman]

well i guess it all depends on the kind of business being run. while ASP is suitable for small businesses, J2EE is probably the way to go when requirements get more dynamic and large scale. some people have mentioned Tomcat and MySQL with J2EE, but then I believe Websphere Application server is a lot better for enterprise solutions in terms of deployment speed, security and what not. i also think oracle/ms sql server are better options as far as back-end development is concerned. however, i haven't really had a chance to work with MySQL 5 yet, so can't comment much on that.

.NET i guess is still a prospect, but is handy if you're looking at a career at MSoft

my personal favourite is J2EE for, as bharat mentioned, its ability to make space for new things. not sure if anyone mentioned SAP here - it provides a lot more efficient means of handling data in the back end than most database systems, and this is also somewhere that Java comes in handy.

[cluster11]

WAS (Webspher Application Server) is great, and when combined with WebSphere Portal it can make web development and integration with other apps very efficient. BEA Weblogic has similiar architecture and they both perform nicely with ICS, Vitria Businessware or other middleware. JRun and iPlanet does good job too but doesn't have a comprehensive suit like IBM or BEA offers. All of these apps are J2EE based so as noted earlier Java is the way to go if you are intro enterprise computing.

But the topic I think mentioned small business for which I'm not sure BEA or IBM will be a cost-effective vendor. MySQL5 is great because you can do views, stored procedure, triggers. Also SQL Server, Oracle and Db2 all now offer free version of their RDBMS. Oracle XE looks pretty good with no license restriction and based on 10i. So for a small business with limited number of apps and servers, I would suggest LAMP or XP-IIS-SQLServer-ASP because it's mostly free, cheap and stable. I have used Perl (CGI) and PHP with JSP-Beans-Tomcat-MySQL5 solution and they work fine as long as you deal with 2-3 concurrent apps at most. Perl can play significant role in scripting or automation in pretty much any platform (even IBM's WAS has scope for Perl or Python scripting) but it's not web development.