There we go again Cheap shot from Cricinfo

[akabir77]

a letter

Is this the same guy? if it is no wonder he is so dumb... This guy is from usa and this might be his second article or some thing.... I couldn't find anything else on him other than 2 articles on cricinfo... Looks like any one can become a editor in cricinfo now a days...

[Tigers_eye]

"Professional job Jul. 20 - 26, 2002

Sir, - This is to congratulate you on your accomplished efforts to cover world sports in a concise and informative fashion. I appreciate The Sportstar because of its detailed analysis of cricket and soccer and the essays by various sports writers. Being abroad in college in the USA, it is always refreshing to receive your magazine each week. One suggestion: could you add more posters of cricket players "in action" on the field, rather than simply posing at the nets? Once again, well done for maintaining such high professional standard in sports journalism, and keeping a cricket enthusiast's mind abreast of current happenings, on and off the field.

JAMIE ALTER,
BY E-MAIL "

*******

Good work aKabir77 bhai. What better you can expect from a college student in US writing about something he has no knowledge of. No wonder there is no source. So the major blame has to go to Mr. "you know who" who allowed it be posted without editing.

Main quality to be a Cricinfo staff is start bashing anyone, make it sensational splash; you are in. Way to go CricInfo. You are showing great professionalism.

Edited on, November 4, 2005, 4:43 PM GMT, by Cats_eye.

[MartinW]

I have just come across this forum subject after a few days out and about, hence the lack of reply until now.

Firstly, Jamie Alter is entitled to his view as this is clearly labelled as a comment piece. Obviously, such an opinion would not go into a news article, but comments are just that, a more personal opinion. They are checked by whichever senior editor is on duty at the time.

The one par quoted needs to be read in conjunction with the previous paragraph where it compares Tikolo's and Kenya's achievements with Bangladesh's. That is not to say that what Jamie says cannot be criticized and disagreed with, but it needs to be in context.

If you are unhappy then send in feedback to all editorial. I can assure you that it is all read and, where not abusive, it is taken seriously and passed on to and discussed with individual writers.

As an aside, the way to get your point across is to argue rationally and politely. The personal abuse contained in some of the postings is, in my opinion, excessive. The aim of becoming part of this forum was to show that your views are taken seriously, but if that means trawling through insults, then it isn�t going to happen.

If someone out there wants to submit an article highlighting why and how Bangladesh receives a bad press � and by all means take a swipe at Cricinfo � then send it to me, and if it warrants it then I will publish it. If it includes sweeping generalisations and abuse, then it is unlikely to be considered.

Martin Williamson
Managing Editor

[Rubu]

Martin Williamson, thanks a lot for your reply. Yes, I do agree that some of the posts here are abusive to cricinfo. But again, we are not professional writers but fanatic fans. Even though not wanted, and of course not constructive, these kind of response is hard to avoid (please note the Itelicize word). And of course, everyone is entitled to his/her personal view, but that is not enough to justify stuff like those in a place where thousands visitors see it everyday. your popularity autometically entitles you to responsibility. now, a comment like that can be explained as someone's personal view, but how do you explain the responsibility of cricinfo? Another point worth mentioning: you can't hit a child and a grown up man the same way. A grown up man can easily endure hits that can be fatal for a child. as the newest member of test cricket, bangladesh faces all the problem a child would face compared to a man. a child need that extra care, not the opposite. don't you agree?

[Tigers_eye]

Originally posted by MartinW
Firstly, Jamie Alter is entitled to his view as this is clearly labelled as a comment piece. Obviously, such an opinion would not go into a news article, but comments are just that, a more personal opinion. They are checked by whichever senior editor is on duty at the time.

Martin Williamson
Managing Editor

So, just to be clear sir, personal opinion do not need any source to back up their thoughts at CricInfo. Senior Editor who is on duty would over look that. It is up to the reader to makeup their mind if it is true or false. I am making up my mind, the article implies BD bribed ICC to stop Kenya from being a test nation and Cricinfo attests that. Is that correct assumption?

[MartinW]

Yes, I agree that there is a responsibility with what is posted. However, I also believe that in a piece which is a personal comment there has to be scope for people to express themselves. That doesn't mean that all that gets published I agree with, nor do my colleagues necessarily agree with all I write (probably not most of what I write!). We have the responsibility to run news in a clear and objective way. There is more scope with comment.

I do also agree with what you say about new countries needing to be nurtured. If you read comments I have made, I say just that. I do not see the value of forcing countries such as Bangladesh to fulfill a Future Tours Programme that often does them no favours, and I think that they should be treated fairly by some of the so-called big boys. In ten years time, people may well wonder how Bangladesh were ever compared with Kenya and Zimbabwe. Whatever the short-term issues, Bangladesh should be confident enough to look up to overtaking West Indies and not looking down and worrying about those below them.

[GuruTM]

Originally posted by Sami

* Cricket is not popular in that country. >>> True
* They don't have domestic cricket structure. >>> True This is related to the first point.
* Apart from tikolo, odumbe they dont have quality players. >>> their team can be compared to the Bangladesh team... so...
* When they wont play or out of form they will be beaten by Bangladesh U19 team. >>> Yet to be proved and i think we need to sort this debate out once and for all
* They dont have good enough sponsors. >>> tied to the first point
* They dont have infrastructure in their country. >>> this is related but lets not go there yet.

Edited on, November 4, 2005, 6:32 AM GMT, by Sami.
Reason: bbcode mistake

My point is what has Bangladesh got to do with this? Do we stop kenya being a test playing nation? I dont believe in argument for argument's sake. The way this article goes it sounds like Bangladesh playing a nasty part against kenya not being a test nation. An unfair deal with ICC maybe? The author did not clariffy.

Let us do a role play, Sami is a SSC examinee, cannot write proper english, don't know maths much, his parents are not rich enough to get him a tutor, he don't wear proper clothes and is always ill. Now Humbaa_humbaa came along and said "Sami will never be able to pass the SSC exam. TeamManager and the Bangladesh education board have ensured that." What has TeamManager and the Bangladesh education board got to do with Sami not being able to write proper english, not able to do his maths, his parents being poor, him not wearing proper clothes and he is ill?

Think twice before you get me wrong.


Edited on, November 4, 2005, 7:12 PM GMT, by TeamManager.

[Humbaa_humbaa]

O yeah......you Cricinfo will kick our *** and in return we must be polite and rational...how dare you are to dictate and pollute the cricket world like this..

You guys need serious baby-sitting..

[Rubu]

humbaa_humbaa

please be civil in your response. He is not obliged to give us an explanation. But he is till doing it. You should appreciate that, and talk in logic. I'd love to see you giving some punches with logic and reason of which mr. martin does not have any response. but your response is completely uncalled for (just like JA's, they are not welcome)

Edited on, November 4, 2005, 6:46 PM GMT, by Rubu.

[MartinW]

Originally posted by Humbaa_humbaa
O yeah......you Cricinfo will kick our bottom and in return we must be polite and rational...how dare you are to dictate and pollute the cricket world like this..

You guys need serious baby-sitting..

The point I am making is that there is no need for personal insults. I am trying to be as open as possible but this kind of comment is really not helpful. Not sure what it is hoping to achieve?

[oracle]

Thank you Martin for replying. I just wanted to say that Cricinfo should refocus on constructive articles that provide creative views about changing the cricket culture. Why not write about ICC's development plans. Are they viable? What can established teams do to develop infrastructure in countries like Bangladesh and Kenya? etc.

Comments are fine but they are a brief "high" like drugs, wearing off once the kick is over. Let's drop the rhetorics and focus on something that pays dividends in the long run.


General Mod note : Please refrain from any personal attacks .

Edited on, November 4, 2005, 7:27 PM GMT, by oracle.

[GuruTM]

I did not mean to attack Sami personally. That was just a role play scenario. Cheers Sami.

[Beamer]

I think what Mr. Jamie Alter was trying to say that because of BD's premature promotion to the test ranks and subsequent failure has shut the door closed for Kenya and Tikolo to gain their full status. I think that is what he is implying. I am not saying it. He is. He is right in a way and wrong in a lot of ways. He is implying that ICC doesn't want to make another mistake and Bangladesh is as gulity as ICC for not showing up and playing upto their elite status.

Lets keep Tikolo aside for a moment and argue what Kenya herself has to offer for her cricketing aspirations and contrast that with Bangladesh. Missing from Kenya is a huge passion and number of masses supporting their own cause. We have a huge following and anyone associated with cricket will point to that fact. That generates money and money is the name of the game of intl cricket. Missing from Kenya is any sort of meaningful domestic structure. We on the other hand, despite not having proper infrastructure, were always miles ahead of Kenya in that regard. And recently we have made a lot more progress in buliding our domestic structure, whereas Kenya has regressed with corruption, match fixing allegations etc. We have a lot of age grouped teams representing the country in various levels at home and overseas. Actually, Tikolo played many years in Dhaka league even before we were awarded test status and he did play tremendously. We have big corporate houses sponsoring cricketing events, tournaments and players so they can be professionals. Tikolo and others had to come down to Dhaka league to make a living. We have all the necessary ingredients to make a succesful cricketing nation given time and patience. ICC recognised it rightly and made an astute decision for future with the agenda of globalizing the game further fullfilled and at the same time enriching their coffers as well. Kenya doesn't offer any one of those at the moment or in the forseable future. They lack crowd, money, structure etc to make it a viable entity. So they are their worst enemy. Not us. Blaming us for their ineptitude is like blaming Iraq for 9-11, with all due respect to Mr.Blair!

Getting back to Tikolo and the assertion that he is the best player not to ever play test cricket is pretty much correct. No place to argue with that. Had we not been awarded test staus , I believe, Rafiq or Bashar would have given him a tough fight for that title. But thats another story that has no relevance to us. We are not sorry and have no sympathy for kenya. Ten years ago, they were probably a better team than us and the head to head results should prove that. Right now we have a dearth of talented young individuals like Ashraful, Aftab, Nafis, Mortaza who can play toe to toe with any Kenyan , young or aging foes like Tikolo. I would love to see us play right now against them and prove to everybody like Mr. Alter that not only we deserve to be in test ranks but we have left behind the ghosts of Kenya from mid-nineties. Players from that era doesn't represent Bangladesh anymore but sadly Kenya has nowhere to go but still get mileage out of those old legs from an bygone era. What happens to Kenya after likes of Tikolo are gone? care to answer Mr. Alter? what do they have in place to warrant the elite status? What would be more productive is for these journalists to spend time to research and write about the negatives that is eating Kenyan cricket and prescribe a remedy for that. Instead, he is maliging us, an easy target these days, to connect such fantastic dots for Kenyas perils. Its malicious, irresponsible, fabricated, baseless and utterly foolish. When cricinfo tries to pass it as someones personal opinion, it not only stands by such garbage, but also reinforces the assumption held by many Banglacricket members that cricinfo harbours ill intention towards us.

In the end, I agree that it is us, our cricket team, that has to change the perception by performingand proving that they belong. I believe we will in the future. Until then, we have to brace ourselves from time to time to face calamity by opinion mongers, who will find fault even when we may think we are not involved.

[AsifTheManRahman]

well, like i said in another thread, a little bit of thinking before putting pen on paper is always a good idea. having personal columns are fine, but when you are the leading cricket website in the neighbourhood, isn't it better to play it safe instead of just blurting out whatever occurs inside an individual's mind, evidently as a result of irrational thinking? just a thought

[Tigers_eye]

Originally posted by Beamer
When cricinfo tries to pass it as someones personal opinion, it not only stands by such garbage, but also reinforces the assumption held by many Banglacricket members that cricinfo harbours ill intention towards us.

Beamer deserves a gold medal for saying the truth.

Just want to add 95% of Bangladeshis who regularly reads CricInfo articles feel that way. [BC member or not]

Edited on, November 4, 2005, 10:49 PM GMT, by Cats_eye.

[Spitfire_x86]

post, Beamer

[m35helal]

Originally posted by Humbaa_humbaa
O yeah......you Cricinfo will kick our bottom and in return we must be polite and rational...how dare you are to dictate and pollute the cricket world like this..

You guys need serious baby-sitting..

Humbaa_humbaa, you rock maaan.....

[al Furqaan]

cricinfo has definitely got some employees/writers/ editors with their own agenda. but they are in many other places as well, not just at cricinfo. and the majority of this movement are not journalists, but are mere fans.

there a great many elitists from england, australia, and india mainly who favor kicking bangladesh and/or zimbabwe out so hard, that they are never able to come back again.

while those [edited] might not be here to read what i am writing, if they were, they would claim that it isn't blind hatred but rather the standard of our game which prompts the incessant attacks.

i know one who was clamoring for bangladesh to be stripped of test status. claiming his undying support for zimbabwe, he went as far as to say that zimbabwe were a much superior side that us.

some months later after the kenya-ireland ICC intercontinental final, this same [....edited...] is whining about how zimbabwe should also be stripped of test status. what a hypocrite!

but the fact is that such people have blind hatred. they are a spineless bunch, who do not have in their entire nation, the courage which a bangladeshi has in a single tiny cell.

they are truly a worthless bunch of individuals who have absolutely no place in the world of sports and who are not worth even the feces they exrete.

Edited on, November 5, 2005, 1:05 AM GMT, by al Furqaan.

Edited on, November 5, 2005, 5:24 AM GMT, by Ahmed_B.
Reason: mod.action: No use of foul langugage.

[akabir77]

One thing I want to mention to Mr. william is that, most us are/were big fan of cricinfo. I still remember those times when we had no where to go but to seat infront of the cricinfo page watching (according to my mom) dots... And hence we have a soft corner for the site and it hurts us more to see how some writers over and over again posting their hidden agenda with out logic and top of that you are supporting them by saying he has rights to say what ever he wants. Then tell me sir what is the difference between cricinfo and some other sites like cricketnext.com etc. You will notice that there are very few threads on those sites cause we care less about those sites. So please take our feeling seriously and tell you editors to be a little more thoughtful.
Thank you

[alNoor]

Originally posted by Humbaa_humbaa
O yeah......you Cricinfo will kick our bottom and in return we must be polite and rational...how dare you are to dictate and pollute the cricket world like this..

You guys need serious baby-sitting..

I salute you humbaa_humbaa for you courage because if you don't whack hard on the head of a very barking dog, it will not stop does not matter how civil and rational you are..

But I totally disagree with Rubu on humbaa_humbaa's comment

I know you Rubu are doing a good job for the forum..but just keep in mind that sometimes if you are Mr. Nice, then you are really goofed up.

"Evil comes from evil". So find the origination of evil before you blame anyone...

Cricinfo is a site of extremism for some countries...
.

Edited on, November 5, 2005, 5:36 AM GMT, by alNoor.

[Rubu]

Whats so couragous about being rude? I don't see anything. Everyone can be that on the internet. That is not the point. The point is, how could you blame someone for making stupid comments if you also do that. If you are to blame JA for not being right with his logic, judgement and comments, you at least need to give it a try to be right on those. If you intentionally do that, you loose the right to judge other.

Now, don't think that I'm taking a ghandhi approach here. if you look at it from that point of view, you need to have a war plan before you jump into it. u don't just grab a gun and start shooting without looking at where and what u are shooting. be methodical in your approach and clear in your logic. you will be able to say everything without having to be rude. but again, that is only my personal view.

take beamer's post and hambaa_hambaa's post for example. which one is more effective? didn't beamer said it in a much better way?

Edited on, November 5, 2005, 5:53 AM GMT, by Rubu.

[alNoor]

Originally posted by Rubu
Whats so couragous about being rude? I don't see anything. Everyone can be that on the internet. That is not the point. The point is, how could you blame someone for making stupid comments if you also do that. If you are to blame JA for not being right with his logic, judgement and comments, you at least need to give it a try to be right on those. If you intentionally do that, you loose the right to judge other.

Now, don't think that I'm taking a ghandhi approach here. if you look at it from that point of view, you need to have a war plan before you jump into it. u don't just grab a gun and start shooting without looking at where and what u are shooting. be methodical in your approach and clear in your logic. you will be able to say everything without having to be rude. but again, that is only my personal view.

take beamer's post and hambaa_hambaa's post for example. which one is more effective? didn't beamer said it in a much better way?

Edited on, November 5, 2005, 5:53 AM GMT, by Rubu.

First of all humbaa's post is not rude or uncivil...

I think in another thread named Cricinfo against Bd cricket, our forum members were polite, rational and civil in criticizing cricinfo's comment on BD...

So what is the result....Cricinfo came up with another emotionally pumped article and hurt BD cricket fans again...

Just keep in mind some times if your are too polite and civil then you are goofed up...

I don't like to sound rude or aggressive to you personally...I have a question for you..what is your interest in Cricinfo that you are so biased to it.....

[shaoun]

the fact is kenya won 6 out of 7 matches against us. they have reached the semi-final in 2003 world cup. they have more odi wins against us playing less matches then we did. they have a world class player like tikalo and we dont. (although i think ashraful is getting there). but we are a test playing nation. and i honestly dont believe that kenya can beat us now. i mean they lost to ireland. kenya has become a one man team now. without steve tikalo kenya is no different then other icc associates team.

[chinaman]

Originally posted by Humbaa_humbaa
O yeah......you Cricinfo will kick ....

.. serious baby-sitting..

Dear Humbaa_humbaa

Consider this as a warning. We will not tolerate personal abuse or foul language. Please take time to read our guidelines (link within my signature).

If you continue abusive posting, we might restrict or even take away your posting privilleges. Thank you very much for your understanding and support.

[chinaman]

There are quite a few posts containing abusive words in this thread. Few posts even go a step further to encourage the abusive poster.

I have just one line for you guys, stop it right now or else.