Pick up your option. What's the way forward for Bangladesh cricket?

Miraz · #1 September 7, 2008, 06:21 AM

We have a group of players who used to play better cricket, but they were inconsistent. We hired a coach to develop them to consistent performers. He brought them down to such a level that they no longer play good cricket and they are consistently playing poor cricket.

This poor show cannot go on for indefnite period. We must find a way forward and resurrect Bangladesh cricket. So, let's try to explore the options we have ..

First option : Change the players. They are dumba$$. Now to be fair, we can't change our players as they are the best we have got. They are failing to respond to coach's instruction. On players defese, if a coach cannot get his message across, he can't be a good coach. The message itself must be flawed and confusing otherwise why everyone is failing to respond? It's easy to say that they are dumb, but that cannot be the only truth. Even if we agree that they dumb, can we change them with an intelligent bunch? Where are those intelligent players? So, basically this option is not available to us.

Second Option : Stick to Jamie Siddons until his tenure ends. Doesn't matter what's the result. Simply stick to him, he is the best coach of the world. He is trying everything, it's the players' fault who are not performing. They are stupid idiots and the coach is a smart genius.

Third option : Change the coach and try to hire someone else who will be able to guide the players more effctively. Jamie Siddons might be a very good coach but his method of coaching isn't working for us. Moreover he is a genius in putting blame at others which is not helping our cause either. His public messages are also demoralising for the team. Just have a look at his public messages since his arrival

Bangladesh players are not what they are thinking... they are not up to interntional standard..... don't even dream of winning against top oppositions... the difference between their averages and leading teams averages are huge... how can they think of winning...our bowlers are ordinary...our batsmen are scared of the paces of x, y z.....

After destroying the belief and team morale...he is saying that the players are not listening to him... and we are backing him....it must be the dumb$$ players who are guilty... the coach is simply fine.

Enough of this blame game. Let's find someone else who will talk less and will bring effective change.

Option four : Let's stop playing international cricket until our cricketers develop themsleves to such a level that they will be able to compete consistently at international level.

Now, it's your time to pick your option. What do you think as the way forward?

Changing infrastructure, developing domestic cricket will be a continous process and we must continue to work on the development programs.

I am not going for other intangible options and sticking to these concrete options. Let's see what are the opinions of the BC members.

MohammedC · #2 September 7, 2008, 07:04 AM

What's the way forward for Bangladesh cricket?

Missing Option in your poll (none of the above).

We need better domestic circuits.

Competetive league. 4 day league in Dhaka which is about to happen. My request to CCDM just do it for the sake of our cricketer (dont give a damn if it does not get FC status experince is what we need).

More coaching for young cricketers. Spend more time not 7 days. e.g. BCB u-19 camp will start @10th of september and finish on 16th. Link

Better scouting to find potentially talented unknown players I am sure there is more we could find. e.g Rubel Hussain

Get a strong Team Manager one who had taste of international cricket in recent time. e.g. Khaled Mahmud Shujon (just an example)

cricket_king · #3 September 7, 2008, 07:12 AM

Now if the whole point of the thread is to determine the best option for Bangladesh to move forward in international cricket, I'll have to go for option number 4. Lately I've realised we're just not up to it. We need to fix our infrastructure before trying anything else. The thing is, I want them to keep playing. Obviously speaking from a fan's point of view there. But I'd have to say we stop playing for a while, just like Zimbabwe, and hopefully, develop some competent cricketers.

Miraz · #4 September 7, 2008, 07:13 AM

Mohammed bhai, I have already mentioned about domestic cricket and development programs in the opening post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miraz
Changing infrastructure, developing domestic cricket will be a continous process and we must continue to work on the development programs.

These are long term processes. We must work on them at the same time.

Razi · #5 September 7, 2008, 07:18 AM

The way this poll is designed, there is no way except to choose option two if you truly a supporter of BD cricket. I would have chosen the first one, but Miraz bhai made it difficult for everyone to choose it by saying ''Results don't matter''. Obviously results matter but its not that getting a new coach will bring the desired result for the team. After staying for almost a year JS is now more or less adjusted with the team. Therefore, we don't want a new coach who will again start from scratch. Rather we should give JS some more time and lets see what happens. I am also pretty much impressed with the way JS managed to change his attitude. He no more says rubbish things about our players in the media and also admits before a match that a win is possible if we play to our potential. We also have to improve our infrastructure and make sporty pitches to get good results. Injury/absence of some important players is also not helping JS to make his stats look better. So for now its better if we stop poking at JS and concentrate on the things which Mohammed bhai mentioned.

Miraz · #6 September 7, 2008, 07:25 AM

Razi, JS is not giving us any result, he failed in his first 10 months. If you want to stick to him, you have to be ready to accept these defeats in future.

Spitfire_x86 · #7 September 7, 2008, 07:35 AM

I vote for ... The post-Australia tour Siddons poll

Miraz · #8 September 7, 2008, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spitfire_x86
I vote for ... The post-Australia tour Siddons poll

Spitty, you could have voted in this poll, there was no need to create to separate a poll. I understand as a pro-Siddons you are desperate to see more votes for Siddons and that's why created a separate poll where the problems of JS are not highlighted.

MohammedC · #9 September 7, 2008, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miraz
Mohammed bhai, I have already mentioned about domestic cricket and development programs in the opening post.

These are long term processes. We must work on them at the same time.

Yes Miraz Bhai I saw that. But I dont think our out spoken coach is our main problem. It is true he has very basic knowledge about our cricket history. e.g. Rafiqe, Rasel. But as cricketer you can not just forget how to bat or bowl just with in the space of 9 months (JS' era).

What about those 7 months that we did not had any coach. Did we forgot anything?

bossman111 · #10 September 7, 2008, 07:45 AM

Lets be really honest here. The problem is not at the top, its at the bottom. Cricket has terrible infrastructure in Bangladesh - no grounds, no coaches, no training facilities, no proper cricket education.

You can throw all the money you want at the elite levels of the game, but without sustained investment in the grass roots of the game, Bangladesh cricket will continue to chase its tail and go in circles.

You can have the best coach in the world, but Bangladesh will continue to be wildly inconsistent on the world stage unless the next generation can have a proper cricket education.

I feel that to much attention is paid to the higher levels of the game in Bangladesh - national teams, academy and under age teams, when it seems quite obvious to me that a basic infrastructure is lacking to be able to move Bangladeshi cricket forward.

Yes the national team is important, but of more alarming importance is the need to grow the game from the bottom up rather than the top down. I really feel for JS here - he has inherited a group who quite simply have not played enough tough cricket to warrant selection in international cricket. They lack basic cricket sense that you only learn at a young age playing plenty of cricket.

Firing JS and bringing in a John Buchannan or Dav Whatmore or Peter Moores or Greg Chappell will not help the situation. You must look to the mistakes that these players have made and analyse why they were made - and the answer is that they have lacked any sort of tough, hard competitive upbringing from a young age. Unfortunately for the boys, they are being forced to learn skills they should have learned in the early stages of development - even before First Class cricket - on the big stage. Ofcourse they will struggle. These boys have been let down - not by their coach, but by the system that brought them through the ranks.

The BCB must, MUST invest in the bottom levels of the game - provided structured cricket at the ages of 10 and 11 - all the way through to under 19s, then into a feeder system into the NCL and ofcourse onto the national side.

Take a peek at this - http://www.cricketnsw.com.au/nswcoa/...ell_Played.pdf - section 4. This is where the BCB can learn. I know the social and economic circumstances are different, but there is still a way the BCB can fit this type of system into Bangladesh.

So like I said, blame the coach all you want, but this same situation will come up time and time again unless structure is brought into Bangladeshi cricket at ALL LEVELS - not just at the top.

mahbubH · #11 September 7, 2008, 07:45 AM

No option for me.... first one is close to what I think good for BD cricket (did not vote!)

MohammedC · #12 September 7, 2008, 07:50 AM

Ok lets say we get rid of him. Who are you going to replace him with?
and if we dont get a result in next 6/7 months are we going to get rid of him also.
What if this new coach is clever dont say much in public only just praise our player and BCB and our domestic structure. How long would it take us to find that he is not up to it.

MohammedC · #13 September 7, 2008, 07:55 AM

excellent post number 10 by bossman111

Miraz · #14 September 7, 2008, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bossman111
Lets be really honest here. The problem is not at the top, its at the bottom. Cricket has terrible infrastructure in Bangladesh - no grounds, no coaches, no training facilities, no proper cricket education.

Bossman, I guess you have never been to Bangladesh before. Our domestic structure is no way near Australia or England, but it's not very far from India or Pakistan. It's not remotely similar to the situation you are saying.

We do have cricket education from the age of 10 (Bangladesh institute of sports, BKSP), but it's not up to divisional level yet. We do have grounds at district and divisional level and coaches at divisional level. At divisional level there are level 2 coaches. it's true that the infrastruture is not up to the mark yet, the facilities are not state of the art, but saying that we do not have any structure is completely false.

The system has to be revamped which is a continous process and we have a long term game development program to develop it where Cricket Australia is providing the technical assistance, but at the same time we must develop our cricket at top level where JS is failing. Our U-19 boys and acaddemy teams are competing equally with top teams, Sri Lanka, South Africa, England... New Zealand to name a few. So, it's not true that they don't have the basic otherwise they would have struggled at all level.

Dhurr · #15 September 7, 2008, 07:59 AM

Miraz Bhai, Bangali der moddhe "You are with us or against us" mentality ta ektu beshi strong. You criticize their favorite player, even if that player is not performing, and they take that criticism personally. You criticize their favorite coach, even if that coach is incompetent, and they take that criticism personally.

If the members here are able to step out of their biased stance for a minute and can take a look at the big picture objectively, they should clearly see that:

a) Siddons is an incompetent coach.
b) the Board has failed us so far.
c) the core of the team comprises of Shakib, Tamim, Rajjak, Rasel, Mashrafe (when he is not temperamental or superstitious) and possibly Raqibul. Outside of these six, everyone is dispensable.
d) the cricketing facilities in Bangladesh are inadequate.
e) the domestic structure needs to be improved.

To fix the problems:
a) Bring a new coach.
b) We need a new board.
c) Build around the core. Drop all the non-performers, and make the pay of the players performance-based.
d) Improve the facilities. Build some sporting wickets. Allow national/A-team/U-19 cricketers to use national facilities all-year round so national players don't have to pay to build their own pitches or pay people to bowl to them (ala Javed Omar).
e) More four and five day matches, and more domestic competition.

I know a) and b) are not gonna happen, because the board doesn't have the balls to sack Siddons, and because the military government is too busy letting all the corrupt politicians off the hook to care about cricket.
c) probably will not happen since everyone loves Ashraful/Aftab/Alok/Mushfiq/Shahadat/name a random non-performing cricketer here.
d) will not happen because the Board will say they don't have the money.
e) will not happen because four and five day games are not profitable for the board.

The end-result will be dabba. This is why we are where we were in 2001. Nothing has changed. We are still at the bottom and we will be at the bottom until the ICC finally pulls the plug and takes away our test status.

Razi · #16 September 7, 2008, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miraz
Razi, JS is not giving us any result, he failed in his first 10 months. If you want to stick to him, you have to be ready to accept these defeats in future.

Bossman and Mohammed bhai said it all, and Miraz bhai you are saying to vote in this poll but actually to say the truth there is no valid option. There is no option which would really take us forward except bashing JS in this poll.

Miraz · #17 September 7, 2008, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razi
Bossman and Mohammed bhai said it all, and Miraz bhai you are saying to vote in this poll but actually to say the truth there is no valid option. There is no option which would really take us forward except bashing JS in this poll.

Why? You want to stick to JS and clearly there is an option there.

Now if you want to stick to JS, you must ignore the outcome. If it produces good results, excellent. But if it results in consecutive losses like his first 10 months, you should still back him. Isn't it?

Razi · #18 September 7, 2008, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miraz
Why? You want to stick to JS and clearly there is an option there.

Now if you want to stick to JS, you must ignore the outcome. If it produces good results, excellent. But if it results in consecutive losses like his first 10 months, you should still back him. Isn't it?

No I will not stick to JS if the same results continue before his tenure ends. But who will you bring to replace him and will you ask for the same thing if he also can't produce the desired results?

MohammedC · #19 September 7, 2008, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miraz
Why? You want to stick to JS and clearly there is an option there.

Now if you want to stick to JS, you must ignore the outcome. If it produces good results, excellent. But if it results in consecutive losses like his first 10 months, you should still back him. Isn't it?

I will stick with JS but results do matter.

MohammedC · #20 September 7, 2008, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MohammedC
Ok lets say we get rid of him. Who are you going to replace him with?
and if we dont get a result in next 6/7 months are we going to get rid of him also.
What if this new coach is clever dont say much in public only just praise our player and BCB and our domestic structure. How long would it take us to find that he is not up to it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razi
No I will not stick to JS if the same results continue before his tenure ends. But who will you bring to replace him and will you ask for the same thing if he also can't produce the desired results?

I also like to know.

Miraz · #21 September 7, 2008, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razi
No I will not stick to JS if the same results continue before his tenure ends. But who will you bring to replace him and will you ask for the same thing if he also can't produce the desired results?

Why? According to pro-Siddons members, it's all our players fault and the coach is fine, one of the best coaches of the world. So, why will you withdraw your support from such a fine coach? Our failures can't be his fault.

Regarding his replacement. IMO, there are quite a few other candidates who will do much better. Even our Bulbul will be a better choice when supported by Kalpage and Ramanyeke as fielding and bowling coach.

MohammedC · #22 September 7, 2008, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miraz
Why? According to pro-Siddons members, it's all our players fault and the coach is fine, one of the best coaches of the world. So, why will you withdraw your support from such a fine coach? Our failures can't be his fault.

Regarding his replacement. IMO, there are quite a few other candidates who will do much better. Even our Bulbul will be a better choice when supported by Kalpage and Ramanyeke as fielding and bowling coach.

Who is going to be our head coach?

Miraz · #23 September 7, 2008, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MohammedC
Who is going to be our head coach?

.
Bulbul can do the job temporarily until BCB finds a replacement.

Open you eyes, there are good number professional coaches who will be ready to take the job keeping the amount of money we are paying in mind.

bossman111 · #24 September 7, 2008, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miraz
Bossman, I guess you have never been to Bangladesh before. Our domestic structure is no way near Australia or England, but it's not very far from India or Pakistan. It's not remotely similar to the situation you are saying.

We do have cricket education from the age of 10 (Bangladesh institute of sports, BKSP), but it's not up to divisional level yet. We do have grounds at district and divisional level and coaches at divisional level. At divisional level there are level 2 coaches. it's true that the infrastruture is not up to the mark yet, the facilities are not state of the art, but saying that we do not have any structure is completely false.

The system has to be revamped which is a continous process and we have a long term game development program to develop it where Cricket Australia is providing the technical assistance, but at the same time we must develop our cricket at top level where JS is failing. Our U-19 boys and acaddemy teams are competing equally with top teams, Sri Lanka, South Africa, England... New Zealand to name a few. So, it's not true that they don't have the basic otherwise they would have struggled at all level.

Miraz Bhai I have most certainly been to Bangladesh. I know that comparatively, Bangladesh will never, ever have the structure of Australia and England. But listen to the comments of your mortal enemy JS about the infrastructure. I think he would have some idea - he is the coach of Bangladesh.

I must admit, I am not entirely sure how the BKSP works, but its not the BKSP kids I am talking about. Again you have missed the point. The problems are not at the top - the facilities, the structure of coaching at national, 19s and Academy level is fine. It is at the bottom. The FC structure and more importantly the levels below FC cricket is not going to be full of BKSP kids. You must cater these players as well. You strengthen the non-BKSP kids, and ofcourse the BKSP kids will get better because they are playing a higher standard of cricket at all the levels - not just at the elite.

If you strengthen the group as a whole, your high performance players will become much better - more mentally than technically.

Not enough is being done at these levels. If you strengthen the structure, the building will be much stronger.

Fire JS and bring in the next guy, then the next next guy and the one after that. At the end of the day, not much is going to change. At least JS will not accept mediocrity - like the previous regime did IMO.

Razi · #25 September 7, 2008, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miraz
Why? According to pro-Siddons members, it's all our players fault and the coach is fine, one of the best coaches of the world. So, why will you withdraw your support from such a fine coach? Our failures can't be his fault.

Regarding his replacement. IMO, there are quite a few other candidates who will do much better. Even our Bulbul will be a better choice when supported by Kalpage and Ramanyeke as fielding and bowling coach.

First of all Kalpage and Ramanyeke are appointed for Academy teams. If we appoint all coaches for national team then who will coach in the age level teams? As far as Bulbul's concern I also agree with you that he will be a good coach, but are you sure he is ready to accept this job? We still need coaches like Bulbul to stay in the grass root level and bring up the hidden talents that we have around the country and on the way let him also complete his level 3 coaching and become a world class coach to take over as the head coach of the national team one day.