BCB to renew coaches contracts? I hope so!

[betaar]

Originally Posted by BANFAN
HAHAHA YOU MAKE ME LAUGH.

Siddons has been forced to accept that we can win against big teams. He had to swallow his own words. if you have forgotten then let me remind you of a JS statement "If anyone thinks BD can win against G8 teams, they are fools" That he said after 2007 WC after beating Ind and SA. We almost forgot the attitude of winning, thanks to Shakib for changing that attitude of the team.

I remember Siddons saying something like that probably right after some of the key players going to ICL. And remember, how bad Bangladesh was right after the 2007 WC, we were going through a very hard time when Siddons was just appointed. In fact he said that to keep people's expectation realistic.

Originally Posted by BANFAN
I dont like to make it longer, improvement/changes are things that is vissible in players' performances. Like we all see improvements in 4 months of Ian Pont & Julien F. But we fail to see those in 4 years of batting coach/head coach. He hasn't improved a single player. Some macro level improvements have happened and that would probably happen in natural course, even without any coach.

This is what I said earlier about our recent improvement.

Quote:

Well it's a Bangldeshi bandwagon or thela gari I should say. Just like there are too many people here that would always ask for the heads of the current players with up coming prospects, they are doing the same with the coaches.

First of all, no doubt JF or IP are good coaches and are capable of handling beyond the departments they are in charge of right now but why do you think they are being successful is such a short time? JS has groomed these players for the last few years and made them what they are. JS is now overseeing the whole process including focusing on batting which leaves a lot of time for JF and IP to fine tune their individual areas. If either of them worked on their own they would’ve had lack of time as JS and would make some mistakes along the way. We all know 3 coaches are better than 1 especially when they all are SMEs in their own field. So it’s the whole package or the team of coaches that needs to be utilized and contracted for the future of Bangladesh not just one.
Jamie Siddons, Ian Pont and Julian Fountain, they all complement each other and create a force that can make Bangladesh a better for the future.

Yes, it's true after IP and JF came over we see more improvements but we also have 1 other level 3 coach in GL and a trainer. Did JS have the luxuary to utilize all these support staffs before the last 4 months? It's a no brainer that 3 level III coaches are always better than 1 which is why I am all for keeping all these support staff for the long term. My intension is not to discard one or the other, rather utilize all of them in the same org structure.

[akabir77]

Originally Posted by Raynman
So what you are saying is, he is not the best man or even a good man for the job but its the best option we have (?)

Again, explain to me why you regard him as a keeper as a HEAD COACH and why you think someone like Ian Pont wouldn't be better in that role. See my response to Ian as to why I feel Siddons has not been a successful solution for us.

In my opinion we need to keep siddons. you might not agree with this. but if you do then rest of the logic will make sense to you else you can skip it.
We can keep all our coaches if we can afford them to their current positions.
but if you want to make any of the other coaches head coach then we will lose Siddons. because I don't think he will want to get demoted.
so that's why I think we need to keep him as HC.
Now if we can get a better batting coach than him then I am all for changing him. but to me Batting coach is biggest need for our team and he is the best in the business.

[shuziburo]

Originally Posted by Zunaid
Game, set and match!

But seriously, all our specialist coaches are Level 3 coaches and Ian and Julien both have head coach experiences in well known Cricketing establishments. They are all quite capable of leading us - In addition to the on paper skills and their background, both Julien and Ian have a big picture vision that makes them eminently suitable to lead to be head coach. Plus, they seem to want to. That's a triple plus for me. Sorry Ian - I am using your post to make a point.

Actually, because of his ability to look at big picture, I am sure that Ian Pont will be a very successful Head Coach one day. I hope it happens for Bangladesh.

[Raynman]

Originally Posted by akabir77
In my opinion we need to keep siddons. you might not agree with this. but if you do then rest of the logic will make sense to you else you can skip it.
We can keep all our coaches if we can afford them to their current positions.
but if you want to make any of the other coaches head coach then we will lose Siddons. because I don't think he will want to get demoted.
so that's why I think we need to keep him as HC.
Now if we can get a better batting coach than him then I am all for changing him. but to me Batting coach is biggest need for our team and he is the best in the business.

No point in going in circles so I'll end with this:

You have yet to make any effort even to explain what makes JS valuable as a Head coach to be considered for the future. As much as I hated Whatmore publicly lobbying for India's coaching while he was still contracted to us, atleast he had results to show behind that lobbying. JS can not point to Bangladesh accomplishments as anything noteworthy for other well known teams to consider him.

Now my approach has been to analyze whats at hand and come to the conclusion that we can be better off without JS. Thats my opinion and I'm not claiming thats the 100% correct one. But you are starting off with JS CAN NOT be replaced and then trying to find reasons why to keep him. Even in that you have yet to point out a solid explanation of justifying your pre determined conclusion.

A Head Coach has more on his plate than batting. It involves working with and being able to stand up to the Board when needed, a solid relationship with the captain and the whole team, contingency plans in terms of players should injuries happen, public relations....actually you can just look at the list of items Ian Pont pointed out.

At the end of the day, I'll still root for Bangladesh and hope for success with or without Siddons. i just think we can do a lot better with someone else, and I happen to think his replacement options are siting at our dinner table at this very moment, thats all.

[ahnaf]

Some old fight has again started.. Lol.. Keep that guyz..

[EspnBhai]

all our current coaches see us as minnow ... its a complete waste, we will never go anywhere with them.

i'd say, as of now just reject the foreign coaches, bring some local arogants with winning mentality.
sack the brainless selectors, bring some ex-cricketrs with brain who never played cricket for BD national team (i mean, those who we see as so called experts often on tv).
perhaps Rafiq could be a good spinner coach.

we have a culture of playing as hard hitting batsman, its no use trying to make them some sort of middle order sensible batsman.
JS ruined batsman like Ashraful, Aftab, Naeem through this experiment.
you guys often talk about how huge contribution there is from JS to Tamim and Sakib,
well, these are the only two players he let play their natural game, thats why!

we are not learning kind, so we should let the players play the way they wanna play.
for the sensible middle order, we should find the players who have natural instict for it, like Rakibul and Ryad or Imrul.

only the local coaches with winning mentality is our future
otherwise i see ireland, netherland, afghanistan will topple us sooner than we think.

[Beamer]

Originally Posted by babubangla
I see a general trend in not-so-positive opinion about Siddons.
I understand the other coaches come to this forum and we get to interact with them.
They marketted themselves well with us. Most of us became subject of their very professional PR.
This does not make Siddons a valueless coach.
We need to remember, we came where we are now mostly under Siddons. Other coaches came in just few months back. The team that we have now is not a result of few months of work.

Don't also forget that McIness became a darling here for those very reasons. You give them some attention, and they will carry you on the shoulder!

[akabir77]

so white wash nz, WI and win against SL, England is not any accomplishment...

I don't know what siddons did to you but hope fully you will be able to grow up...

I have watched all bangladesh games from bangladesh's childhood. I watched their very first ODI, first Test and all their games before and after they got the test status. I don't need some one else to tell me who has a good effect on bd team. do you know how bd played under mohsin kamal? to me whatmore took us back at least 3/4 years by not fixing anything but putting bandage...

...

[Beamer]

Originally Posted by Ian Pont
All statements I have made are true. It is not about repeating someone else's mantra, or disagreeing with someone because you don't.

I have my own views on cricket as a first-class player and International coach. These are based on my experiences working with great players, having been a coach at various first-class sides, having been to THREE world cups now (with England in 2003, NL in 2007 and now BD in 2011), written TWO books on cricket, been Head Coach at the NW Cricket Academy in South Africa where Jimmy Cook, Graeme Pollock and Gary Kirsten were batting coaches. I hold the latest Level 3 UKCC Head Coach award and run my own highly successful academy producing cricketers of the future.

I only say all of this because I have opinions, views, thoughts, plans, goals, ideas, creativity and understanding of how to develop players. Batters, bowlers, fielders... when you are Level 3 coach you have to be able to coach all disciplines. i chose pace bowling, but I have elite level private clients who are batsmen. I worked with Andy Flower on his batting when we were both at Essex together for example.

Grant Luden is a Level 3 coach and spent many years coaching in South Africa with up and coming young players. Julien Fountain is also a Level 3 coach and has a baseball background, which is why he focuses on fielding.

So please understand that we have a talented 'back room' staff that TRULY understands cricket. And we also have views not least as I TRULY KNOW what a head coach needs to be successful. You have to have vision, diplomacy, honour, respect for those around you, a great working relationship with players, discipline, humour, good relationships with the cricket board, clubs and media, be proactive at getting players in, be able to ID and develop talent and also be a decent human being. This is what makes a wonderful Head Coach. I have been one and been under some really good ones.

That's a good sales pitch Coach ! Now, when is the interview for the top job with BCB? You have also got some big time support here, which can only help I assume, but when and if you do get the job, you must be aware that BCB wont let you come here and voice your opinions. See, Jamie doesn't have that luxury. He has to sit and watch ( he must be aware of BC ) all kinds of well directed hate being thrown at his direction. I am sure he has enough on his plate. You will too. I won't hold it against you if you are never seen again, but your deputies ( whoever you choose and if they visit here )will become darlings. All the best.

[Raynman]

Originally Posted by akabir77
so white wash nz, WI and win against SL, England is not any accomplishment...

I don't know what siddons did to you but hope fully you will be able to grow up...I have watched all bangladesh games from bangladesh's childhood. I watched their very first ODI, first Test and all their games before and after they got the test status. I don't need some one else to tell me who has a good effect on bd team. do you know how bd played under mohsin kamal? to me whatmore took us back at least 3/4 years by not fixing anything but putting bandage...

...

Well thats maturity I can not compete with so

I'll only address portions of your comment that deserve to be acknowledged:

NZ whitewash was a great accomplishment no doubt but keep in mind that NZ also went on to a 5-0 drubbing to an Indian team where most of its stars were off to SA for early practice. And IP and JF have every right to stake a claim in that series win given that the wins came due to strong bowling and fielding more so than batting. With the exception of the Coventry match where have our batting won us match by setting a huge total or chasing a big one? Even in T20 our batting has failed where the bowlers had given us totals worth chasing. We've sacrificed our keeping in favor of additional batting strength which too has cost us matches.

The key number in our current ODI ranking is the ratings point. 100 is the par score for teams that win consistantly. We are still a long ways a way from that. For all those wins are you willing to blame all the losses (including IRE, NED, ZIM) to Siddons as well?


So when you are unable to sustain an argument via logic you have to resort to your credentials as a 'super fan'?

[Rubu]

Originally Posted by EspnBhai
all our current coaches see us as minnow ... its a complete waste, we will never go anywhere with them.

i'd say, as of now just reject the foreign coaches, bring some local arogants with winning mentality.
sack the brainless selectors, bring some ex-cricketrs with brain who never played cricket for BD national team (i mean, those who we see as so called experts often on tv).
perhaps Rafiq could be a good spinner coach.

we have a culture of playing as hard hitting batsman, its no use trying to make them some sort of middle order sensible batsman.
JS ruined batsman like Ashraful, Aftab, Naeem through this experiment.
you guys often talk about how huge contribution there is from JS to Tamim and Sakib,
well, these are the only two players he let play their natural game, thats why!

we are not learning kind, so we should let the players play the way they wanna play.
for the sensible middle order, we should find the players who have natural instict for it, like Rakibul and Ryad or Imrul.

only the local coaches with winning mentality is our future
otherwise i see ireland, netherland, afghanistan will topple us sooner than we think.

Who are those local arrogants with winning mentality? We did not have foreign coach forever. Care to show how our performance went down since we started getting high profile foreign coaches? I'd ask to begin with Dav Whatmore since he is the first world class real coach with experience we had.

Why playing for national team is a bad thing when becoming selectors?

None of your logic is making any sense.

[akabir77]

Originally Posted by Raynman
...

NZ whitewash was a great accomplishment no doubt but keep in mind that NZ also went on to a 5-0 drubbing to an Indian team where most of its stars were off to SA for early practice. And IP and JF have every right to stake a claim in that series win given that the wins came due to strong bowling and fielding more so than batting. With the exception of the Coventry match where have our batting won us match by setting a huge total or chasing a big one? Even in T20 our batting has failed where the bowlers had given us totals worth chasing. We've sacrificed our keeping in favor of additional batting strength which too has cost us matches.

The key number in our current ODI ranking is the ratings point. 100 is the par score for teams that win consistantly. We are still a long ways a way from that. For all those wins are you willing to blame all the losses (including IRE, NED, ZIM) to Siddons as well?


So when you are unable to sustain an argument via logic you have to resort to your credentials as a 'super fan'?

my last post wasn't towards you. and i am not trying to get into fight or anything.
I know you have the right to ask for stats and stuff and all i am saying in cricket there r more to it that stats.

beside i saw in another thread coach pont was saying we progressed some 44% which was best progress compare to any nation.

I know lose against week teams r big deals but cricket progress is not a straight line. even whatmore used to say that. beside we even managed to lose against canada before siddons.

so I take it as normal thing for us to lose against week team (all big team lost to week teams).
But i take it as not normal when I see our batsmen stood up to the short balls. takes games to fith days and score 200+ often then not. I don't know why you are not ready to give these to siddons. I think we won more matches under him then we won under any other coach. so thats clear as day who is making us strong.

Again if you have fixed on one thing that siddon is good for nothing than u can come up with 1001 reasons why team could have been better but history says we were here without him and now we are here with him (imagine this part as the movie Knights and days...lol)

Last thing is I do agree he is not the best but I do not agree that he is worst like you guys are making or sounding him...

btw i am no supper fan but just a fan and i never claimed to be one. What i tried to say with my small experience he made a present Kenyan like team to BD team that every other teams thinks heard before playing...

[Dhakablues]

Guys no need to get on each other for this issue. BCB is well aware of the issue of contracts and knows that we have to have coaches for the upcoming busy schedule this year. Understandably, the typical mindset is, if we qualify for the 2nd round, all the coaches will get whatever they want, pretty much.But I have an intuition that Siddons maybe going back to Autralia because he has been here for 4 years and needs a break, especially with the family and stuff. Personally, I am more interested in having some good coaches for the A team, HP and U19 coaches more than the national team coach, especially after all the local good coach leaving for Malaysia, China, etc. That will serve the country well for the future of cricket..

[Beamer]

Yea, all those 'winning results' and public lobbying for India job got Whatmore the India job. Australia also lined up for him. So did England and South Africa. They were looking for a Test coach who would make sure that their batsmen can take the match to Day Two. But, Whatmore declined because his expertise was stretching the match to Day Three. Gasp.

[Ian Pont]

Originally Posted by Beamer
That's a good sales pitch Coach ! Now, when is the interview for the top job with BCB? You have also got some big time support here, which can only help I assume, but when and if you do get the job, you must be aware that BCB wont let you come here and voice your opinions. See, Jamie doesn't have that luxury. He has to sit and watch ( he must be aware of BC ) all kinds of well directed hate being thrown at his direction. I am sure he has enough on his plate. You will too. I won't hold it against you if you are never seen again, but your deputies ( whoever you choose and if they visit here )will become darlings. All the best.

ha ha ha.. sales pitch? for what?

I was pointing out that the 3 supporting coaches are well-qualified and all with backgrounds that can assist any head coach in their work.

It certainly wasn't a 'pitch' for the head Coach position.. that's funny. It was to let fans know we have a great supporting team behind the squad.

[Beamer]

Just saying Coach. If you were a candidate, and I was a BCB head honcho, I will be sold ! That's all. You are doing a good job, and if there is an opening, I would surely want you to throw your hand in the pile.

Posted via BC Mobile Edition (1)

[BANFAN]

Originally Posted by akabir77
.................
while saying that i do feel he has short coming as a head coach but I think we have to live with that, until we find some one better who would want to come to BD.

We don't need a high profile head coach, we just need the right head for head coach. Batting wise our boyz needs basic help and that can be done by low profile profesionals. And a level 3 coach with a good thought process should do it much better.

Why I say, Ian Pont because he has a right head. It wasn't difficult to understand his logics & approaches to solving problems when he explained things in this forum. Unlike the current HC who said and done things to prove beyond any doubt that he has the wrng head for this job. I can produce a list if you like.

Batting, as you tend to show improvement, let me remind you, we achieved that at the cost of losing matches from first over. We played with the objective of making 200 rathar than to chanse the targets. Some times it was torturous. And four years is a good amount of time for self development.

Well, I dont think that we need different batting coach for Test and ODI. If someone knows batting, he can do it anywhere.

[KaaL-PurusH]

Originally Posted by Night_wolf
i'm not a siddions supporter but i have one name for u..Tamim

As far as i am concern, it was Tamim himself along with Salahuddin's sacrifices and hard work

[KaaL-PurusH]

We need a great tactician and motivator like the great Jose Mourinho as our head coach who always backs his player and push them to peak. For example what he did to Inter Milan last year.

We need someone can make strategies which can be executable by our players. I reckon this is the lone option to lift our game.

[Bancan]

Originally Posted by KaaL-PurusH
As far as i am concern, it was Tamim himself along with Salahuddin's sacrifices and hard work

Even though Tamim himself said Siddons helped him more than a few times?

[Direct-Hit]

Originally Posted by Shocky
I don't think pont or julian should be our head coach...they are'nt that much experienced in international cricket... We need someone who likes challenges, good personality n obviously has good exposure also... JAMIE is always afraid of gambling... Whatmore gave us Shakib, tamim but Jamie failed to invent new faces...So no chance for sid.

Posted via BC Mobile Edition

Hmmm, not experienced in international cricket . . . . .


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julien_Fountain

[Dhakablues]

Coach: Please ignore all these comments from fans.. especially the ones who speak out of no rationale or data. Most of the time they resort to emotions and personal bias. You are hired after extensive paid search and with very high level of networking... There are no doubts of your skills and you are where you are based on your proven track record. Some fans are looking for flamboyant ex-players as coach because that's the name they know. In the coaching circuit, only the top boards know who you all are.... I am pretty confident that all of you can lead the team to success,, be it in Bangladesh or India...We hope that our board will be prudent to select the gem that makes it happen for the country

[Kabir]

Originally Posted by Direct-Hit
Hmmm, not experienced in international cricket . . . . .


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julien_Fountain

Coach, I hope you're also laughing it out!

[Dilscoop]

Originally Posted by Dhakablues
Coach: Please ignore all these comments from fans.. especially the ones who speak out of no rationale or data. Most of the time they resort to emotions and personal bias. You are hired after extensive paid search and with very high level of networking... There are no doubts of your skills and you are where you are based on your proven track record. Some fans are looking for flamboyant ex-players as coach because that's the name they know. In the coaching circuit, only the top boards know who you all are.... I am pretty confident that all of you can lead the team to success,, be it in Bangladesh or India...We hope that our board will be prudent to select the gem that makes it happen for the country

[Zunaid]

Originally Posted by Direct-Hit
Hmmm, not experienced in international cricket . . . . .


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julien_Fountain

Unfortunately some fans (not real fans) don't often take their head out of you know where to do some research and reading.