India's LOI Bowling: The most underrated?

[ma_o_mati]

India always had the worst bowling in the world. Tamim single handedly ended zaheer khan/munaf patel/nehra's career. We always had better bowlers than them. Before their batsman were better, now we r neck and neck. They r losers. They will lose. Even donald trump agrees, indian team is a mess. Dhoni will retire after this match

[cricket_king]

Most boring bowling lineup after Sri Lanka. Spinners and trundlers galore.

But they know how to take wickets. Underappreciated, but not necessarily underrated.

[Navo]

I am curious to hear the thoughts of our new Indian members on this thread. Do they feel the same way about their bowling unit, as the OP and other posters?

[Jadukor]

Originally Posted by Navo
I am curious to hear the thoughts of our new Indian members on this thread. Do they feel the same way about their bowling unit, as the OP and other posters?

Navo have you read the pandora's box story?

[BD_koos]

slow clap....for the hatred shown here ...

[Navo]

Originally Posted by Jadukor
Navo have you read the pandora's box story?

I have indeed To riff of an Oscar Wilde quote - that I believe one of our members has as a signature - "Always appreciate trolls, nothing annoys them so much"

[Night_wolf]

IndYeah some of the new posters here are genuine trolls, we had many respectable Indian posters here before some of you new guys came

[Habib]

Originally Posted by IndYeah
Not one 'home' poster has the balls to call this hate-filled trash post out. and then you have actual trolls referring to genuine posters as trolls. I came to this site and registered because I wanted to interact with bangla posters, but there's so much hate here for India - and its openly tolerated as if its perfectly OK. Some of you need to open your eyes and take a good look in the mirror.

Ahem. Before getting all agitated, I think he was being sarcastic. He actually defends India all the time. Check out his other posts. Care to explain Krishna?

[tiger1000]

Originally Posted by IndYeah
Not one 'home' poster has the balls to call this hate-filled trash post out. and then you have actual trolls referring to genuine posters as trolls. I came to this site and registered because I wanted to interact with bangla posters, but there's so much hate here for India - and its openly tolerated as if its perfectly OK. Some of you need to open your eyes and take a good look in the mirror.

I think you missed sarcasm

[IndYeah]

Well, this is not the only one. There are multiple posts that I see that are not flagged or removed trumpeting the evilness of India and Indians.

Seriously, you guys underestimate the genuine fondness and goodwill that Indians have towards Bangladesh - in cricket and beyond. Now I'm not naive - that goodwill is often coupled with this innate superiority-type attitude where bangladesh is looked as chota bhai - and often mocked a lot in that vein. And I can understand that not being received well. But over-sensitivity to banter often leads to more of the same - and if you take it as hate and respond in kind, you end up generating genuine dislike where it previously did not exist.

[Navo]

Originally Posted by IndYeah
Well, this is not the only one. There are multiple posts that I see that are not flagged or removed trumpeting the evilness of India and Indians.

Seriously, you guys underestimate the genuine fondness and goodwill that Indians have towards Bangladesh - in cricket and beyond. Now I'm not naive - that goodwill is often coupled with this innate superiority-type attitude where bangladesh is looked as chota bhai - and often mocked a lot in that vein. And I can understand that not being received well. But over-sensitivity to banter often leads to more of the same - and if you take it as hate and respond in kind, you end up generating genuine dislike where it previously did not exist.

Come, come, let's not bicker any more. Look at how many posts in this thread praise (half or wholeheartedly) the Indian bowling line up. If you follow this forum over a longer period of time, you will find we are more critical of ourselves than of any other country.

- As myself

If you see any posts that you believe violates the rules of the forum, please report it.

- As a Moderator

[epitaph]

India's LOI bowling has been quite good since the last ODI WC.

Unlike Pak, they look like a pro fielding side too these days.

Originally Posted by IndYeah
Not one 'home' poster has the balls to call this hate-filled trash post out. and then you have actual trolls referring to genuine posters as trolls. I came to this site and registered because I wanted to interact with bangla posters, but there's so much hate here for India - and its openly tolerated as if its perfectly OK. Some of you need to open your eyes and take a good look in the mirror.

You're a ridiculously poor poster.

I wish we had a few actual decent Indian posters here. It'd be nice to have them. Unfortunately, the ones that post here sound like the ones from ICF.

[the_realist]

Their bowling is on par with our bowling and slightly worse than Pak's, but their batting so much better, it makes a massive difference, especially in the T20s because then the opposition doesn't have much time(or many overs) to come back into the match once the top order gives India such a great start, which isn't the case in ODI's and test matches.

I don't quite understand how they produce so many unbelievable batsmen. I compare their batsmen with the rest of the other countries, they really do produce the most technically sound players, which takes them a long way towards making the best of each delivery they face, even the Aussies don't have such sound technique. In fact, when I see the current Aussie batting line-up, I never feel anyone of them is as proper as Ricky Ponting(great footwork), Mark Waugh, Damien Martin used to be.

[RazabQ]

I agree it is underrated. When you think of the World Cup's best pacer, admit it, you don't think of Mohammed Shami - but statistically and impact wise, he was on par with Starc and Boult. When you think of express pace from the subcontinent, you think Wahab Riaz and if you wear black and yellow stripes in the inside, Taskin. You don't automatically think of Umesh or Varun. If you think they are effective but don't rate them, that is the _definition_ of underrated.

FWIW I think our attack is on par with theirs bowling nous-wise but ahead on pace. On the flip side, on CURRENT form, none of our spinners can hold Ashwin's jock ATM.

[KingKohli]

With Nehra , Bumrah and Pandya coming in.. Bowling looks way stronger

and the Main guy you missed out in that line is BHUVI he is deadly than any other guy listed above..

I want to see Bhuvi on that green top he can be a Treat to watch..

Nehra - He is a wicket taking bowler + Can leak runs by bowling loose once in a over

Bumrah - Smart people will try to play him out unless he gives any width.. his action makes it much tougher and he can be good with yorkers in the depth

Ashwin - Just rotate strike out of them all most intelligent bowler anything over 4 in his over is just great

Jaddu - Bhuvi should be playing in his spot since spin isn't doing much but he is love child of our captain he just won't him let go... Only weak link in IND bowling could take advantage and attack.

Pandya - Got lot of hopes on this kid.. Hopefully he will keep it going and could be our next big allrounder.. He is apparently our highest WIC taker in 2016 in T20'S.. He is good and did well with bat and bowl.. Un sung hero :P Picks up wics every match but gets unnoticed..

[mufi_02]

^ I think Umesh Yadav is the most promising Indian bowler now. Not sure why he missed out on Asia cup.

But you know very well that Nehra is near his end. He had a very unremarkable career. Bumrah/Pandya are good options but will fade way.

Yadav and B Kumar should be India's long term option.. Ishant/Aaron can support them.

[KingKohli]

Originally Posted by mufi_02
^ I think Umesh Yadav is the most promising Indian bowler now. Not sure why he missed out on Asia cup.

But you know very well that Nehra is near his end. He had a very unremarkable career. Bumrah/Pandya are good options but will fade way.

Yadav and B Kumar should be India's long term option.. Ishant/Aaron can support them.

ohh god no not that guy again.. He should be kept away from LOI'S as long as Dhoni is there.. He is fine in Tests with Virat

T20 Just no way in hell he will leak runs..

They will find someone to replace Nehra for Next t20 we are lucky our Foundation is really good and IPl should help as well

Bhuvi is a Beast on Green Pitches but on Flat Tracks

I hope MSD picks him over his love child Jaddu for final

[mufi_02]

^love child Jaddu lol.

I am not taking about T20 as anyone can shine in this format. The batsmen are waiting to give you the wickets. It is only in ODIs and Test where a bowler sets up a batsmen to get him out. So Bumrah/Pandya might be good for T20s but won't be as effective as Yadav, Bhuvi, or Shami in other 2 formats.

On that note, your foundation is not that great. AUS have good foundation. They can rotate Starc Marsh Cummins Hazelwood Richardson etc. easily. NZ seems to be good as well with Matt Henry being very good plus you have Southee Boult C Anderson etc.

If the foundation was good then India wouldn't go back to a 36 year old like Ashish Nehra. You have someone about to retire like Nehra and some kids like Bumrah/Pandya. That is not a good mix of balance. They are doing their job alright but you know very well that it is not sustainable. As you said, Nehra will be replaced by someone is next Wt20. That only proves that point that the pacers are playing a musical chair.

In recent times, besides Zaheer and Ishant, no Indian pacer had the longevity. Someone like Steyn/Morel for SA, Anderson/Broad for Eng, Boult/Southee for NZ, Malinga for SL. A strong foundation should create stronger pacers who can last.

That being said, Indian pacers are doing well now. They are getting the job done and that's why are unbeaten in this tournament and have a strong chance for another T20 WC trophy.

[KingKohli]

Originally Posted by mufi_02
^love child Jaddu lol.

I am not taking about T20 as anyone can shine in this format. The batsmen are waiting to give you the wickets. It is only in ODIs and Test where a bowler sets up a batsmen to get him out. So Bumrah/Pandya might be good for T20s but won't be as effective as Yadav, Bhuvi, or Shami in other 2 formats.

On that note, your foundation is not that great. AUS have good foundation. They can rotate Starc Marsh Cummins Hazelwood Richardson etc. easily. NZ seems to be good as well with Matt Henry being very good plus you have Southee Boult C Anderson etc.

If the foundation was good then India wouldn't go back to a 36 year old like Ashish Nehra. You have someone about to retire like Nehra and some kids like Bumrah/Pandya. That is not a good mix of balance. They are doing their job alright but you know very well that it is not sustainable. As you said, Nehra will be replaced by someone is next Wt20. That only proves that point that the pacers are playing a musical chair.

In recent times, besides Zaheer and Ishant, no Indian pacer had the longevity. Someone like Steyn/Morel for SA, Anderson/Broad for Eng, Boult/Southee for NZ, Malinga for SL. A strong foundation should create stronger pacers who can last.

That being said, Indian pacers are doing well now. They are getting the job done and that's why are unbeaten in this tournament and have a strong chance for another T20 WC trophy.

He is his Love child.. He just won't him goo

I am exicted to see what Bumrah and Pandya has to offer in ODIS

I really have a hope on Pandya can be a Big thing and cement his place in LOI'S like Rohit and Kohli but we will see

Its getting better that's all i can say and Ofcourse there is no way in hell we can touch AUS when its gets to bowling... Right now with Starc gone its looking worse than Kenya Dismantled side

Age is Just a Number - Nehra ( Like nehra says so he is there only for T20's ) He won't be there for ODIS

Right now even SL doesn't have anyone after Malinga..

For us it will take a bit of time.. AUS , RSA , NZ , PAK , ENG always had good Pacers but hey hey

We got best Spinners you never said.. Ofcourse we got the Best batting

Someone actually asked MSD in Interview

Why doesn't IND produce any seamers like RSA? He answered something like this

We have Better Spinners which you never asked

PAK = never has any Quality Batsmen after Inzi and prob there savior Misbah

AUS , NZ , RSA , ENG = No quality spinners

Every team has some kind of problems

It would be boring if its a Team like AUS from 1999-2007 THEY WIN EVERYTHING
Quality Batmens , Pacers + Warne like Spinner

[mufi_02]

On spinners, I admit Ashwin is really really good.

Kohli is an ODI freak. At this rate, he will even surpass Tendulkar in terms of statistics (but not in terms of influence as Sachin batted and dominated in a different era). Rohit has some crazy records. So don't expect Pandya or anyone to even come close to that. Kohlis (or to a lesser extent Rohits) comes once in a generation.

This discussion is for bowling only.

AUS w/o Starc is still very good. But I think NZ is even better these days.

India has a great pace foundation (MRF). I think it opened more than 20 years ago. You have legends like Lillee and then McGrath coaching there. Decades old foundation, legendary coaches, good infrastructure and the best India have produced is Zaheer or Bhuvi or Shami.

You said you have a strong foundation and I agree. Compared to Pak/BD you have extremely good culture and system in place along with top coaches. Do you know how we get pacers? A telecom company arranges a nationwide Pace Hunt where amateurs bowl and are selected on spot and then fast tracked to coaching centers which has shambolic infrastructure. The impressive ones are then pushed to A or age level teams.

So obviously the expectation is higher for India.

The comparison is not between Mustafizur who bowled in village fields and some Indian youngsters being trained by Lillee and McGrath. It is not about Bangladeshi pacers vs India pacers. It is the very fact that an under-trained amateur bowler with no proper training can rip through the mighty Indian bowling up, who are I am quoting you --

Originally Posted by KingKohli
Ofcourse we got the Best batting

may it be for one season or few matches is no small thing.

With such amazing foundations, coaches, infrastructures, IPLs, you should not be here trying to explain how you bashed Mustafiz in 3rd T20 or 1st T20. But you should talk about how your bowlers are on par with the greatest ones of today like Steyn/Johnson/Anderson/Broad/Boult/Amir/Malinga etc.

The fact remains, with all the resources and millions (or might even billions) spent on IPL, the best India have produced in the last 15 years was Zaheer or maybe Ishant (who are mocked even by Indian fans) or Bhuvi/Shami. Forget Bangladesh as we are minnows, but all other top 8 nations have produced 2-3 legendary bowlers in that time span.

Finally to quote you again --

Originally Posted by KingKohli
They will find someone to replace Nehra for Next t20 we are lucky our Foundation is really good and IPl should help as well

What good is all the strong foundation when it produces very few results. The ROI (Return on Investment) is not to be proud but to be concerned about.

[Mas_UK25]

Meh. Overrated. Tamim will end Bumrahs career and make Hardik look like a club bowler.

Mohammad Shami only good bowler they have after Zaheer Khan.

[IndYeah]

Originally Posted by epitaph
India's LOI bowling has been quite good since the last ODI WC.

Unlike Pak, they look like a pro fielding side too these days.



You're a ridiculously poor poster.

I wish we had a few actual decent Indian posters here. It'd be nice to have them. Unfortunately, the ones that post here sound like the ones from ICF.

Your dislike of my opinion makes me a poor poster?
Own as usual.

[KingKohli]

Originally Posted by mufi_02
On spinners, I admit Ashwin is really really good.

Kohli is an ODI freak. At this rate, he will even surpass Tendulkar in terms of statistics (but not in terms of influence as Sachin batted and dominated in a different era). Rohit has some crazy records. So don't expect Pandya or anyone to even come close to that. Kohlis (or to a lesser extent Rohits) comes once in a generation.

This discussion is for bowling only.

AUS w/o Starc is still very good. But I think NZ is even better these days.

India has a great pace foundation (MRF). I think it opened more than 20 years ago. You have legends like Lillee and then McGrath coaching there. Decades old foundation, legendary coaches, good infrastructure and the best India have produced is Zaheer or Bhuvi or Shami.

You said you have a strong foundation and I agree. Compared to Pak/BD you have extremely good culture and system in place along with top coaches. Do you know how we get pacers? A telecom company arranges a nationwide Pace Hunt where amateurs bowl and are selected on spot and then fast tracked to coaching centers which has shambolic infrastructure. The impressive ones are then pushed to A or age level teams.

So obviously the expectation is higher for India.

The comparison is not between Mustafizur who bowled in village fields and some Indian youngsters being trained by Lillee and McGrath. It is not about Bangladeshi pacers vs India pacers. It is the very fact that an under-trained amateur bowler with no proper training can rip through the mighty Indian bowling up, who are I am quoting you --




may it be for one season or few matches is no small thing.

With such amazing foundations, coaches, infrastructures, IPLs, you should not be here trying to explain how you bashed Mustafiz in 3rd T20 or 1st T20. But you should talk about how your bowlers are on par with the greatest ones of today like Steyn/Johnson/Anderson/Broad/Boult/Amir/Malinga etc.

The fact remains, with all the resources and millions (or might even billions) spent on IPL, the best India have produced in the last 15 years was Zaheer or maybe Ishant (who are mocked even by Indian fans) or Bhuvi/Shami. Forget Bangladesh as we are minnows, but all other top 8 nations have produced 2-3 legendary bowlers in that time span.

Finally to quote you again --



What good is all the strong foundation when it produces very few results. The ROI (Return on Investment) is not to be proud but to be concerned about.

I said Pandya will more likely cement his place in the team.. I never compared him to Kohli or even Rohit... They are on another level right now.. This guy could replace the role of MS in future.. Even if he gives 70% of what MS did we will take it with both hands with batting and few decent overs as well..

Not really AUS without starc is nothing.. All of our matches in AUS are so close its just that our pace bowling isn't up to the mark with shami injured.. What a turn around after bumrah and nehra's return

Highlighted part was interesting even Shohib was telling us when he was asked how come IND never produces any good pacer like wasim or waqar or even you.. He just answered.. You need to go look around and find people like that.. You don't sit in a tent and select out of few kids that comes in for selection.. Which i agree

But it seems like Fast bowling culture was never there cause everyone wants to become Batsmen like Sehwag , Dhoni or Kohli or a Spinner like Kumble , ASH

The thing about MUZ is he is over rated already no one knowns about him for First 2 matches and that cutter stuff was bit impressive.. They are now used to it hence you felt like i was bashing but the truth it about time the kid gets exposed

I don't agree with IPL is reason for the good stuff happening may be part of it but not the only reason we produce good batsmens its just a Myth..

Future is bright about time they ll find someone not worried.. Our batting and Spinners just makes things easy even if our Pace bowling is 60% we are grand

[horizon]

Originally Posted by mufi_02
On spinners, I admit Ashwin is really really good.

Kohli is an ODI freak. At this rate, he will even surpass Tendulkar in terms of statistics (but not in terms of influence as Sachin batted and dominated in a different era). Rohit has some crazy records. So don't expect Pandya or anyone to even come close to that. Kohlis (or to a lesser extent Rohits) comes once in a generation.

This discussion is for bowling only.

AUS w/o Starc is still very good. But I think NZ is even better these days.

India has a great pace foundation (MRF). I think it opened more than 20 years ago. You have legends like Lillee and then McGrath coaching there. Decades old foundation, legendary coaches, good infrastructure and the best India have produced is Zaheer or Bhuvi or Shami.

You said you have a strong foundation and I agree. Compared to Pak/BD you have extremely good culture and system in place along with top coaches. Do you know how we get pacers? A telecom company arranges a nationwide Pace Hunt where amateurs bowl and are selected on spot and then fast tracked to coaching centers which has shambolic infrastructure. The impressive ones are then pushed to A or age level teams.

So obviously the expectation is higher for India.

The comparison is not between Mustafizur who bowled in village fields and some Indian youngsters being trained by Lillee and McGrath. It is not about Bangladeshi pacers vs India pacers. It is the very fact that an under-trained amateur bowler with no proper training can rip through the mighty Indian bowling up, who are I am quoting you --




may it be for one season or few matches is no small thing.

With such amazing foundations, coaches, infrastructures, IPLs, you should not be here trying to explain how you bashed Mustafiz in 3rd T20 or 1st T20. But you should talk about how your bowlers are on par with the greatest ones of today like Steyn/Johnson/Anderson/Broad/Boult/Amir/Malinga etc.

The fact remains, with all the resources and millions (or might even billions) spent on IPL, the best India have produced in the last 15 years was Zaheer or maybe Ishant (who are mocked even by Indian fans) or Bhuvi/Shami. Forget Bangladesh as we are minnows, but all other top 8 nations have produced 2-3 legendary bowlers in that time span.

Finally to quote you again --



What good is all the strong foundation when it produces very few results. The ROI (Return on Investment) is not to be proud but to be concerned about.

How many of Indian current team bowlers are trained by Lillee and McGrath? Shami? He used to live in his coaches house in Kolkata and grew up like that. His parents didn't have money to send him to Kolkata for training, forget at MRF. You should remember most of the subcontinent is still poor and sports is a luxury in most of India.

[guppy]

Originally Posted by RazabQ
When you think of express pace from the subcontinent, you think Wahab Riaz and if you wear black and yellow stripes in the inside, Taskin. You don't automatically think of Umesh or Varun. If you think they are effective but don't rate them, that is the _definition_ of underrated.

I don't wear black and yellow inside or outside but let me remind you how BD batsmen treated the express Varun Aaron
http://www.espncricinfo.com/asia-cup...ry/723445.html

Article doesn't say that one of Mushy's sixes was a *sweep* (iirc).

What happened to Anamul?