For My Brothers

[NoName]

My belief is the way I follow my religion is between me and God only.

[Tigers_eye]

It is not I am right and you are wrong attitude. My salvation is connected to yours and therefore I have to convey the message. It is up to you to accept and/or reject. Why do i keep repeating the same thing even after you have asked me not to say it? Because my Lord has taught me not to give up on anyone. I am not the one to change anyone. It is the Lord of all world's who guides.

[Zunaid]

Originally Posted by Tigers_eye
It is not I am right and you are wrong attitude. My salvation is connected to yours and therefore I have to convey the message. It is up to you to accept and/or reject. Why do i keep repeating the same thing even after you have asked me not to say it? Because my Lord has taught me not to give up on anyone. I am not the one to change anyone. It is the Lord of all world's who guides.

It IS about your belief that you are right and the other person is wrong. How else would one posit that "My salvation is connected to yours and therefore I have to convey the message". It is not only up to me to accept or reject it BUT it is also MY right that my personal belief system is NOT encroached and intruded upon by yours.

We could use a list like the "National Do Not Call Registry" to protect us from salvation marketing.

[Shock]

Originally Posted by NoName
My belief is the way I follow my religion is between me and God only.

Secular wise, yes, religion/god is a personal matter and islam does not say that. Islam says every muslim is brother or sister in religion. They are like a body, if one part of the body is hurt then rest feels it and take action. So your secular wise, is not in islam, NoName. That is why islam is called a nation. If islam were to be personal matter, it wouldn't be called Ummah/nation of Muhammad (S). Simple logic.

[Shock]

Originally Posted by NoName
My belief is the way I follow my religion is between me and God only.

Hello NoName! Listen, in a secular world, your religion/god can be personal matter. But you see, in Islam, all muslim are brothers and sisters. They are like single body. If one part hurts, the rest respond. So you see there is no room for god is personal and it is a secular idea, which contradics Islam. Sinple logic.

Now, if you are non-muslim than that is a dawah for you.

[Zeeshan]

Originally Posted by Shock
Hello NoName! Listen, in a secular world, your religion/god can be personal matter. But you see, in Islam, all muslim are brothers and sisters. They are like single body. If one part hurts, the rest respond. So you see there is no room for god is personal and it is a secular idea, which contradics Islam. Sinple logic.

Now, if you are non-muslim than that is a dawah for you.

Mind sharing the relevant verse from Koran that supports your statement?

[Shock]

Originally Posted by Zeeshan
Mind sharing the relevant verse from Koran that supports your statement?

You are playing politics here, playing games here. Anyway, I am not an eligible person to give you an Ayah from Qur'an like scholars. But as I mention, muslims are like a single body. For instance, we give zakah 2.5% of our annual income. This is given to poor society. Doesn't it like a socialist style, it is actually islamic law. In islam, poor has rights to the wealth of rich. There is plenty of examples. Why don't you search, at least you will learn something about our religion islam.

[Zeeshan]

Originally Posted by Shock
You are playing politics here, playing games here. Anyway, I am not an eligible person to give you an Ayah from Qur'an like scholars. But as I mention, muslims are like a single body. For instance, we give zakah 2.5% of our annual income. This is given to poor society. Doesn't it like a socialist style, it is actually islamic law. In islam, poor has rights to the wealth of rich. There is plenty of examples. Why don't you search, at least you will learn something about our religion islam.

Dear Shock,

The tone of your post far dissuades the reader from pursuing study in Islam, than one as an open invitation.

If you are not "an eligible person to give [me] an Ayah" then you should be aware that you are committing shirk sin by bending interpretation of the Holy Book to fit your views as you desire.

I may not be a Muslim in many people's eyes nor a scholar, but I can tell you this much that you are being very presumptuous about certain factors, and furthermore echoing NoName, what is between me and my Creator can only be judged from the Big Man himself. For you to speak with such authority as if you have insight from Mind of God is absolutely presumptuous.

This will do more damage to non-Muslims than good. Then again, none of us have to give a jobabdihi to YOU about what should be our religious beliefs (EVEN ISLAMIC). Because unfortunately, it is you who is playing games, relegating the religion to a mafioso, cadre like "either you are with us or not" qualities.

Peace.

[Nasif]

@shock: you don't have to be a scholar to study a book.

When you take an exam, on the answer paper you don't write "I am not a scholar, as such I cannot answer this question."

Reflect.

[Shock]

Originally Posted by Nasif
@shock: you don't have to be a scholar to study a book.

When you take an exam, on the answer paper you don't write "I am not a scholar, as such I cannot answer this question."

Reflect.

Nasif bhai, I read Qur'an and hadith. I am not brought up islamic way. But with my own interest and later help of my dad and of course with allah's wish, I learned a few. It is long since I either read about that islam is more of an ummah, not of single person's right.

[Shock]

Originally Posted by Zeeshan
Dear Shock,

The tone of your post far dissuades the reader from pursuing study in Islam, than one as an open invitation.

If you are not "an eligible person to give [me] an Ayah" then you should be aware that you are committing shirk sin by bending interpretation of the Holy Book to fit your views as you desire.

I may not be a Muslim in many people's eyes nor a scholar, but I can tell you this much that you are being very presumptuous about certain factors, and furthermore echoing NoName, what is between me and my Creator can only be judged from the Big Man himself. For you to speak with such authority as if you have insight from Mind of God is absolutely presumptuous.

This will do more damage to non-Muslims than good. Then again, none of us have to give a jobabdihi to YOU about what should be our religious beliefs (EVEN ISLAMIC). Because unfortunately, it is you who is playing games, relegating the religion to a mafioso, cadre like "either you are with us or not" qualities.

Peace.

Buddy you really need to study islam before even posting this message. But yes, I agree with you muslims are ummah. Hindus are not part of ummah of Muhammad (S) because of different faith. But that does not mean that You are on my side or other side. No. There is no compultion in matter of religion and that is islam.

What makes you think that I play game with my own faith. You better watch your mouth.

[Shock]

Originally Posted by Zeeshan
Dear Shock,

The tone of your post far dissuades the reader from pursuing study in Islam, than one as an open invitation.

If you are not "an eligible person to give [me] an Ayah" then you should be aware that you are committing shirk sin by bending interpretation of the Holy Book to fit your views as you desire.

I may not be a Muslim in many people's eyes nor a scholar, but I can tell you this much that you are being very presumptuous about certain factors, and furthermore echoing NoName, what is between me and my Creator can only be judged from the Big Man himself. For you to speak with such authority as if you have insight from Mind of God is absolutely presumptuous.

This will do more damage to non-Muslims than good. Then again, none of us have to give a jobabdihi to YOU about what should be our religious beliefs (EVEN ISLAMIC). Because unfortunately, it is you who is playing games, relegating the religion to a mafioso, cadre like "either you are with us or not" qualities.

Peace.

Don't worry, no matter how much I damage islamic faith, it is Allah who guides. Let's say I bother my neighbour by doing stuff that is not civil, and the neighbour is non-muslim, no matter how much I bug them, if Allah guides them, they will convert to islam.

By the way, the way you were talking about me, I will say that, you are judging me without any clue.

[mona]

And, predictably, it comes to this. Shock I think you've got the wrong end of the stick old boy. Actually you're not even holding onto the stick.

So Zee, what was that you were saying about our inherent need to be right?

[Jadukor]

@Zee: I stopped discussing religion with the conservative group a long time ago and my advice to you would be the same. I really can't stand the whole 'holier than thou' attitude. Every time I get into a discussion with them I seem to get into an argument which always ends with that "tomake diye behest hobena" look. My philosophy is not to over-complicate things and respect individual privacy and freedom.

[ammark]

Originally Posted by Shock
Don't worry, no matter how much I damage islamic faith, it is Allah who guides. Let's say I bother my neighbour by doing stuff that is not civil, and the neighbour is non-muslim, no matter how much I bug them, if Allah guides them, they will convert to islam.

My first duty as a Muslim is to say "As-salaam-u-alaikum, wa Rahmatullah wa Barakatuhu". I remind myself first, and then remind others to be steadfast and upright in our Deen!

I must correct you with your statement Shock, whether you meant it literally or not. No Muslim should ever do dawaah with that psyche, without the humility (khasha'a) that is the cornerstone of our Islam (submission). No Muslim has the right to call another person "bad Muslim or Kafir". Allah is Al-Latiful-Khabir and Al-Ghafur-ur-Rahim and Al-Hakim.

You have a greater responsibility, especially in non-muslim countries to be civil, kind and gentle in your deeds, and not just your words to all. Allah may be Al-Wali to the other person in your example, but He has given you aql and you must have Taqwa and fear Allah, for every moment in your life, your limbs, your fingers, the earth, the sun and the moon will bear witness on the Day of Judgement (Subhan'Allah!) against your every action. The other person being guided by Allah is inconsequential to your personal conduct as a muslim.

My shaykh/imam told me this story a few weeks ago at my Halaqa on this topic of dawah: An imam in the UK got on a bus, and was handed 5 Pounds in change from the bus driver. He was not due this change, and it was much more extra to what he was rightfully due. The imam took the change and sat for a long time wondering whether to keep it or return it. Alhamdulillah, the imam returned the 5 Pounds when he was getting down, telling the driver about being overpaid.

The driver responded that he was studying about Islam and had known that his passenger was an imam. He gave the 5 pounds extra to see what the Imam would do.

The UK imam in relating this story commented "i was about to sell Islam for 5 Pounds!". May Allah forgive us for our transgressions, and guide us to be of those who please Him.

[Naimul_Hd]

please spare few minutes and watch...

[mufi_02]

Originally Posted by ammark
My first duty as a Muslim is to say "As-salaam-u-alaikum, wa Rahmatullah wa Barakatuhu". I remind myself first, and then remind others to be steadfast and upright in our Deen!

I must correct you with your statement Shock, whether you meant it literally or not. No Muslim should ever do dawaah with that psyche, without the humility (khasha'a) that is the cornerstone of our Islam (submission). No Muslim has the right to call another person "bad Muslim or Kafir". Allah is Al-Latiful-Khabir and Al-Ghafur-ur-Rahim and Al-Hakim.

You have a greater responsibility, especially in non-muslim countries to be civil, kind and gentle in your deeds, and not just your words to all. Allah may be Al-Wali to the other person in your example, but He has given you aql and you must have Taqwa and fear Allah, for every moment in your life, your limbs, your fingers, the earth, the sun and the moon will bear witness on the Day of Judgement (Subhan'Allah!) against your every action. The other person being guided by Allah is inconsequential to your personal conduct as a muslim.

My shaykh/imam told me this story a few weeks ago at my Halaqa on this topic of dawah: An imam in the UK got on a bus, and was handed 5 Pounds in change from the bus driver. He was not due this change, and it was much more extra to what he was rightfully due. The imam took the change and sat for a long time wondering whether to keep it or return it. Alhamdulillah, the imam returned the 5 Pounds when he was getting down, telling the driver about being overpaid.

The driver responded that he was studying about Islam and had known that his passenger was an imam. He gave the 5 pounds extra to see what the Imam would do.

The UK imam in relating this story commented "i was about to sell Islam for 5 Pounds!". May Allah forgive us for our transgressions, and guide us to be of those who please Him.

Top post. Shock bro, I see you are very enthusiastic about preaching and dawah. This is not bad but we have to use our aql and hikmah as Ammar bhai said. But first we have to be humble and the moment you give this attitude that "go study Islam" or "I am better than you", the message won't go anywhere.

None of us know who is the better one in the eyes of Allah. In fact, it is not our job to judge others. Everyone has good qualities be it conservatives, atheist, agnostic, other faiths.

[Shock]

Originally Posted by ammark
My first duty as a Muslim is to say "As-salaam-u-alaikum, wa Rahmatullah wa Barakatuhu". I remind myself first, and then remind others to be steadfast and upright in our Deen!

I must correct you with your statement Shock, whether you meant it literally or not. No Muslim should ever do dawaah with that psyche, without the humility (khasha'a) that is the cornerstone of our Islam (submission). No Muslim has the right to call another person "bad Muslim or Kafir". Allah is Al-Latiful-Khabir and Al-Ghafur-ur-Rahim and Al-Hakim.

You have a greater responsibility, especially in non-muslim countries to be civil, kind and gentle in your deeds, and not just your words to all. Allah may be Al-Wali to the other person in your example, but He has given you aql and you must have Taqwa and fear Allah, for every moment in your life, your limbs, your fingers, the earth, the sun and the moon will bear witness on the Day of Judgement (Subhan'Allah!) against your every action. The other person being guided by Allah is inconsequential to your personal conduct as a muslim.

My shaykh/imam told me this story a few weeks ago at my Halaqa on this topic of dawah: An imam in the UK got on a bus, and was handed 5 Pounds in change from the bus driver. He was not due this change, and it was much more extra to what he was rightfully due. The imam took the change and sat for a long time wondering whether to keep it or return it. Alhamdulillah, the imam returned the 5 Pounds when he was getting down, telling the driver about being overpaid.

The driver responded that he was studying about Islam and had known that his passenger was an imam. He gave the 5 pounds extra to see what the Imam would do.

The UK imam in relating this story commented "i was about to sell Islam for 5 Pounds!". May Allah forgive us for our transgressions, and guide us to be of those who please Him.

I know what you mean. But could you identify from my post where I said someone Kaffir or non-muslim or I am better than you?

[Shock]

Originally Posted by mona
And, predictably, it comes to this. Shock I think you've got the wrong end of the stick old boy. Actually you're not even holding onto the stick.

So Zee, what was that you were saying about our inherent need to be right?

Could you enlighten me how I can hold the right end of the stick or hold the stick?

[Shock]

Originally Posted by mufi_02
Top post. Shock bro, I see you are very enthusiastic about preaching and dawah. This is not bad but we have to use our aql and hikmah as Ammar bhai said. But first we have to be humble and the moment you give this attitude that "go study Islam" or "I am better than you", the message won't go anywhere.

Originally Posted by mufi_02

None of us know who is the better one in the eyes of Allah. In fact, it is not our job to judge others. Everyone has good qualities be it conservatives, atheist, agnostic, other faiths.

I don't consider myself qualified to preach islam. So I wasn't preaching islam. I just said what is the true. But attitude can be preaching too. If mine is good, then I guess I indirectly preached.

[mufi_02]

Originally Posted by Shock
[B]

I don't consider myself qualified to preach islam. So I wasn't preaching islam. I just said what is the true. But attitude can be preaching too. If mine is good, then I guess I indirectly preached.

We don't have to be qualified. Trust me, characters and manners are more appealing than words. If I deal honestly with people, respect others, don't cheat/lie, people will automatically be attracted.

[ammark]

Originally Posted by Zunaid
Insightful comment, Navo. I too have wondered about this proclivity amongst the 2nd generation abroad. Another interesting phenomenon has been how some first generation immigrants try to keep hold of the mores and sensitivities from the time they left the old country. While things have evolved back home, they haven't. This seems to be particularly true for those who tend to socialize only amongst their own kinds and never try to mix with the people of the country they have immigrated to.

I concur with you guys entirely. Its one of the first things that struck me when I went to Toronto on my own for the first time. Not to generalise, but it was especially common in the 1st gen immigrant community who were relatively recent arrivals from the less fortunate socio-economic groups from the home countries. They are often times the ones least equipped to make it fully in the very competitive Toronto job market, hindered if not by language proficiency and education, then by the fact that in this alien cold landscape and society they just cannot adapt as quickly to (at best) integrate and (at the least) coexist at a similar wavelength to the broader Canadian environment.

Religion is often a pillar of familiarity for the immigrant experience in these situations, and it is common to see that out of the rootlessness of the immigant experience, native/homeland culture might be put behind in order to perfect commitment to the faith instead. I would even suggest, that because of new definitions within the religious movements, a foreign "Islamic" culture is adopted in the lifestyles of these certain groups.

However, I think the Muslim experience and history in Canada and North America is significantly more evolved, and you find within an articulation of how to coexist and especially after 9/11 a more defined understanding of what it is to be Muslim in a democratic liberal society.

In Australia, it is not as mature as yet, and you see tensions and factions within the Muslim communities themselves. I'm sure these factions exist in North America too, but there is something mainstream there to overshadow extreme offshoots most of the time. Perhaps 9/11 has forced the community to unite more whether under ISNA and with lobby groups such as CAIR.

Furthermore, Australia is culturally still very Christian (unlike Southern Ontario) and here the conflicts tend to have an inter-faith dimension, rather than one of faith vs secular society. It is interesting that in Britain though, that despite there being a strong articulate group leading Islamic discourse within and with British society at large, most followers of the faith there probably would not identify with them as much as they would with the cultural islam of the south asian diaspora. As an example think Myriam Francois-Cerrah vs Anjem Chowdhury!

[ammark]

And this also happens in the UK perpetrated by British Asian Muslims:

[NoName]

Nice video, ended up watching the whole thing.

[Rifat]

Brilliant post AmmarDa,

to add on to your thoughts/post:

At the end of the day, Life is your choice. You choose what you want to do after the message is clear/conveyed to you. I mean nobody in BC cares if you skipped fajr salat last morning, nor that it matters much to anybody but yourself.

There is no compulsion in Religion, Truth stands out clear from error.

But I am sure almost everybody here did some research at some point in their life and asked themselves for whatever reason it may be "Why am I Here"? "What am I doing here" What is my role in life? How do I learn more about my creator?

Alhamdulillah! Many muslims listen to a lot of lectures given by various Islamic scholars, we take advice from other muslims, and some even spent some time on our own doing our own research. at the end of the day, It is between you and Allah. at the end of the day, no one else will pray your salat for you, no one else will pay your debt for you, In Islam, there are two types of rights: Rights between you and your creator(HAQQULLAH) and rights between you and Allah's creation(HAQQULI'BAD): Example of rights between you and Allah's creation is when you owe someone money, you pay it back without hesitation, not backbiting, fulfilling contracts, respecting parents,(these acts are counted as worship) and many more...

In the day of judgement, If you violated someone else's rights on this earth, You will not be forgiven by Allah until that person forgives you and you compensated for your wrong doings by either having their sin dumped unto you or your good deeds are subtracted from your balance. However, Rights of Allah(as he is the most merciful) is something that if you fall short upon, Allah can either forgive you or he can punish you(up to his Discretion/Judgement).

I bear responsibility for the accuracy of this message, and this message contains any spiritual harm for anybody including myself I seek refuge in Allah from the outcast devil, the deluder, the Hypnotist.

May Allah help us discover ourselves to be the best human we can be and help us uncover our hidden potential. May Allah help us return to our true home(Paradise), the home where we truly belong, May Allah help us realize our goal, and help us attain the means to acquire JANNAH(Paradise)!


The problem with giving advice these days is that people take it as an insult and/or the person giving the advice is not following the advice himself to the true extent the advice should be followed, or when an advice is given for the general audience/reminder to self and everyone, some people take it as a direct insult/attack to a personal belief that supposedly offended person may hold.

a very relevant and beautiful Verse from Qur'an for myself first and formost and everyone:

[Who say], "Our Lord, let not our hearts deviate after You have guided us and grant us from Yourself mercy. Indeed, You are the Bestower.

Chapter 3 verse 8 Qur'an Sahih International Translation