Ponting's captaincy is overated

Rob · #1 August 11, 2005, 06:16 PM

People keep saying how good Ponting's captaincy is, well I disagree.

I think that so far in this series, particularly at Edgbaston Vaughan has mopped the floor with Ponting in terms of how good the captaincy has been.

Under the pressure England's batsman have put Australia up in this game so far and at Edgbaston, Ponting has been overawed, run out of ideas and lost control of the situation to an extent.

Compare that to Vaughan who has been cool and a cucumber, on that 4th morning at Edgbaston when the game was slipping way from England, Vaughans captaincy was awesome. He stayed calm, his field placings were brilliant and he stayed calm when it would of been easy to panic.

I am not just saying this because I am an England supporter, in my opinion there is no doubt Vaughan is the most laid back and tactically astute captain in world cricket.

A Steve Waugh Ponting is not.

reinausagi · #2 August 11, 2005, 09:30 PM

Can't really disagree with your analysis there. As far being the 'most tactically astute captain in world cricket' I would like to nominate Steve Tikolo. After all, he has been virtually undefeated since the world cup...

Rubayed · #3 August 11, 2005, 10:01 PM

Perhaps u r right Rob, I too felt that way while watching this Ashes series so far but i will still put my money on Aussies to win the series, let's wait and watch.

thebest · #4 August 11, 2005, 10:53 PM

I think he is one of the worst captain Aus ever have. Habibul and Chanderpaul are his competator for the worst test captain of the current lot.

AussieBloke · #5 August 12, 2005, 12:46 AM

A Steve Waugh Ponting is certainly not.

But think about how the game would have been if Gilly caught those two catches, McGrath didnt bowl the no ball, hayden didnt drop those chances...Ponting wouldnt have looked silly. His decision to bring back McGrath would have been applauded. He and Brett Lee's plan to get Pieterson out hooking to deep square leg was brilliant. You cant seriously blame Ponting for everything. He has no control when his premier catchers drop regulation catches. he has no control when Gillespie proves to be no better than medium pace and without any bite. Its just that on this day luck favoured Eng heavily and everything went against Aus.

One thing I do agree is that of lately Ponting's been making a few bad calls. His decision to bring Warne after almost 33 overs was crticized by all the commentators. I guess he may have been influenced by the pre-match talk that the pitch would not take that much turn. Nobody expected the pitch to turn this much. Michael Atherton said that this may also haunt Eng later in the match as they have only Ashley Giles as their regular spinner. Boycott was lamenting how both the teams needed two spinners (preferably a leg spinner and an off spinner). In hindsight, its ok for the experts to say that Mcgill should have been picked instead of Gillespie. But before the match everyone thought that the pitch was flat and hard, and so both team went with the pace attack. Picking Gillespie ahead of Kasprowicz may be becoz Ponting just didnt want to discard Gillespie without giving him another chance. But after this test we may see the end of Gillespie's test career.

As to Ponting's ability, Warne was looking dangerous at every ball. So Ponting was right in not taking the new ball straight away. Bowling Katich paid off as Vaughan got reckless and holed out to Mcgrath. The new ball was taken and Brett Lee immediately took wickets. Also remember he was without Clarke whose bowling would have made a bit of difference. So he had to virtually rotate his 3 bowlers (taking Gillespie out of the equation). If his plans worked out well, he would have looked dandy, unfortunately this was one of those days when most of the things went wrong.

I agree that Vaughan looks unflappable (he should take up professional poker as well) while Ponting's been looking a bit flustered. Maybe it has to do with the shock of english fightback, rather than lack of acumen.

Rob · #6 August 12, 2005, 04:58 AM

Well yesterday, Warne was setting his own fields and telling Ponting where to field himself.

That's not a good sign.

I think Warne is a marvelous captain for Hampshire and would be for Australia as well.

Beamer · #7 August 12, 2005, 09:49 AM

And to add to his woes, his batting has been quite worriesome as well. Soft dismissal today though the ball kicked of the turf a bit. Still, a batsman of his calibre should have managed to keep the ball down, instead it balloned to gully for an easy catch.

It reminds of the same way Ashraful got out in the second test ( or it first? ). So, it can happen to anybody.

battye · #8 August 12, 2005, 11:12 AM

This is what I've been saying for months, I even posted this in another thread.

Ponting should be dropped, it's as simple as that. Steve Waugh was a far better batsman, who performed consistantly, hard to think of an innings in his last couple of years where he performed badly.. all that spring to mind are 50's and 100's.. yet the selecters were always threatening to drop him?

Ponting can't get more than 7 or 8 runs an innings yet the same rules don't apply to him?

Make Gilly captain, maybe has 3 or 4 years, possibly more. By then Clarke should be captain. No doubt he will one day captain Australia.

Hell, he'd be a better captain now than Ponting.

Tigers_eye · #9 August 12, 2005, 03:56 PM

1st Steve Waugh is Steve Waugh. U can not compare Poniting with him.
2nd Ponting was exposed when a team led by him could not protect a 249 against BD. (Just look how England humbled the same team)
3rd it seems luck is not on his side.
4th before judging we must wait till the series is over and then axe his captaincy. This is the first time in a long time where Aus is meeting their match. So crucial decisions count alot. And they are not fimiliar with it. They are use to dishing out not receiving. So they don't know how to react when receiving.
Finally, current Aussie team need Ponting in their batting line up.

I always thought bowlers should always have a big say on setting a field. Listening to Warnie is good captaincy.

"Rain drops r fallin on my head...."
It may save the match for Aus and give a new life.

Edited on, August 12, 2005, 8:58 PM GMT, by Cats_eye.

Tigers_eye · #10 August 12, 2005, 04:05 PM

Quote:

[i]
Ponting should be dropped, it's as simple as that. Steve Waugh was a far better batsman, who performed consistantly, hard to think of an innings in his last couple of years where he performed badly.. all that spring to mind are 50's and 100's.. yet the selecters were always threatening to drop him?

because one of the selectors was Mr. Border who was protecting his runs and steve was a threat. If Waugh stayed another year where would Borders record run stand?? They found a so-so captain and axed Steve.

The Truth and the absolute truth.

Edited on, August 12, 2005, 9:05 PM GMT, by Cats_eye.

James90 · #11 August 12, 2005, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by thebest
I think he is one of the worst captain Aus ever have. Habibul and Chanderpaul are his competator for the worst test captain of the current lot.

Certainly very harsh. Ponting has been quite a successful captain and at stages has fallen just short but I don't see him any worse than Smith or Ganguly. He is overrated yes. He isn't Steve Waugh, yes. But he has done his job and done it well enough. It was Ponting who forced Clarke into the squad at Bangalore, Ponting who led a Warne-less team to a World Cup and Ponting who led Australia to their first 3-0 win in Sri Lanka ever.

He's still only 30 and still performing with the bat so we certainly haven't seen the best of him yet and will surely learn from this experience

BangladeshFan · #12 August 13, 2005, 06:03 AM

there is an old saying "a captain is as good as his team"

battye · #13 August 14, 2005, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cats_eye

Quote:

[i]
Ponting should be dropped, it's as simple as that. Steve Waugh was a far better batsman, who performed consistantly, hard to think of an innings in his last couple of years where he performed badly.. all that spring to mind are 50's and 100's.. yet the selecters were always threatening to drop him?

because one of the selectors was Mr. Border who was protecting his runs and steve was a threat. If Waugh stayed another year where would Borders record run stand?? They found a so-so captain and axed Steve.

The Truth and the absolute truth.

Edited on, August 12, 2005, 9:05 PM GMT, by Cats_eye.

And I think you're right too. It was common knowledge that Steve wanted to retire with a win against India in the subcontinent.

I don't think it was his decision to retire in January 2004, I think he was told that he was going to retire, or be dropped.

Rubayed · #14 August 15, 2005, 01:56 PM

What an innings by Ponting! It was truely amazing, although he almost blew it at the end, thanks to Mcgrath. Bravo to England too for playing the way they have been lately. The last 2 tests have been simply mind blowing.

2Ws · #15 August 15, 2005, 02:51 PM

All ponting critics now shut up ....he has done enough in the 150 's knocock to justify his selection as a captain ...

cricman · #16 August 15, 2005, 02:56 PM

Hey guys didn't it surprise you that Gilspese got to bat ahead of warne?

akabir77 · #17 August 15, 2005, 03:04 PM

150 says he is a good batsman not a good captain though...Anyway Rob i like your new avtar..its funny

2Ws · #18 August 15, 2005, 03:11 PM

he led from the front ........he is tough ...150' inning was a captain;s knock ....he faced 275 balls eqaul to 46 over out of 98 overs bowled today he faced 46 of these ....

akabir77 · #19 August 15, 2005, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 2Ws
he led from the front ........he is tough ...150' inning was a captain;s knock ....he faced 275 balls eqaul to 46 over out of 98 overs bowled today he faced 46 of these ....

So u think if he was not a captain he wouldn't play like that or if he was a bowler captain he could have play that innings...

All i am saying that he play a very good innings but he was able to play that cause he is a batsman. But he lack in setting fielding, chging bowler etc sp READING pitches remember bd match he chose to bat....

James90 · #20 August 16, 2005, 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cricman
Hey guys didn't it surprise you that Gilspese got to bat ahead of warne?

Not in the slightest

2Ws · #21 August 16, 2005, 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by akabir77

Quote:

Originally posted by 2Ws
he led from the front ........he is tough ...150' inning was a captain;s knock ....he faced 275 balls eqaul to 46 over out of 98 overs bowled today he faced 46 of these ....

So u think if he was not a captain he wouldn't play like that or if he was a bowler captain he could have play that innings...

yeah thats the point i was trying to make .............u can see how the other batters from aus played ...cimply carefree and without any purpose trying to hit the ball ...likes of Katich, Gilly ,claeke .they were not trying to eat up as many balls as possible in order to make the draw easy

roaring tigerz · #22 August 16, 2005, 02:49 AM

A captain is as good as the team he leads. Both Steve Waugh and Ricky Ponting have been leaders of champion Australian teams which have conquered all before them. Captaincy really had little to do with the recent successes of Australia. Now that the team is suddenly a little bit under the cosh, Ponting is being made the scapegoat.
I personally feel that Ponting is a great captain. Captaincy after all is judged by success rate, right? Just look at his record both in ODIs and Tests and then pass a judgement then. And if a captain is supposed to ' lead from the front' then his match saving innings epitomises a captain's innings. Of course some of his decisions have gone against him. But that always happens when you come against an opponent who match you stride for stride,know all your weaknesses and maximize it to the hilt.

The single reason that Australia lost at Edgbaston was due to the absence of Mcgrath. So McGrath HAD to play if he felt he could last 5 days. Hayden and Gillespie and proven matchwinners and I still believe Ponting should have them in the team for the remainder of the series. His defensive field placing during the Eng 2nd innings? It was a bit disappointing to see, but when Strauss and Bell were belting the ball to all parts, the only viable strategy was to kill time and restrict the scoring. There is very little to choose between Vaughan and Ponting as captain's.And for that matter it is unfair and impossible to compare Ponting and Steve Waugh.

battye · #23 August 16, 2005, 04:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 2Ws
All ponting critics now shut up ....he has done enough in the 150 's knocock to justify his selection as a captain ...

So he's made a few runs, that's actually what batsmen are supposed to do

Maybe if he had made a few more runs in the series we wouldn't have had losses and ties in the one dayers, and a 2 run loss in the 2nd test.

**Mahmood** · #24 August 16, 2005, 10:43 AM

I dont think Ponting is a good Caption. He is a great batsman no doubt. He has been very lucky to lead team full of great players, its like an auto pilot, not much captaincy needed. But when under pressure, Ponting shows his lack to steer the team.

I feel sorry for Warne, the best captain Australia never had, should have been captain after Waugh.

Tigers_eye · #25 August 16, 2005, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cats_eye

Finally, current Aussie team need Ponting in their batting line up.

"Rain drops r fallin on my head...."
It may save the match for Aus and give a new life.

Don't i look like a fortune teller. hahaha!!

Great game though. 10 days is too long to wait. next time tour schedulers need to give only 5 days rest.