West Indies vs Australia(5 ODIs + 2 T20s + 3 Tests) - Page 6

Gowza · #**126** April 17, 2012, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiger444
The kid has talent for sure. I mean he hit a century against Australia the Gabba. I think what's hindered him is all the injuries he had to endure. It's messed up his development as a batsman. It's sad because he and Bravo started out at the same time and look at both of them now. Bravo has become 1 of the best young Test batsman in the world while Barath is struggling. I believe he should be kept around and be developed along with K Brathwaite and Kieran Powell. They all have potential and will come good in Test cricket with time. It'll really help having Gayle back who could take the pressure off of these 3.

I believe injuries have hit Fidel badly as well. In this Test match, he had to bowl really short spells. That's how careful they are about him. I believe it's better he just focuses on T20I's and ODIs and just quits Tests. He can still be a real asset as a shorter version bowler. Also Roach has developed really nicely so the WI wouldn't miss Fidel much in Tests. I would put Rampaul back in because he did really well last time he was in.

i've heard a lot about barath as a talent, but from what i've personally seen of him i'm yet to see what that hype is all about. i watched that century against australia and kept thinking what all the fuss is about. he must have some sort of talent if lara thinks he has something about him but he needs to go back to domestics and work on some things imo. bravo has developed really really nicely, this kid from what he's shown so far could be one of the best or even the best of his generation/era and i say that knowing he has to compete with the likes of umar akmal, chandimal etc. k powell is obviously a talent, he's performed pretty well so far in test cricket, which is not easy so there is something there. i've heard they have a kid last name carter who is talent (although apparently he hasn't performed very consistently. people have a go at k brathwaite saying he hasn't got the shots/talent but the thing is i've heard that he's a really hard worker and he's clearly mentally tough already and patient so he has a lot going for him imo.

as far as fidel goes it's a real shame to hear you say he should quit tests but i'd say your right in saying it. and your also right about roach, he's starting to come good now. now to ravi rampaul, i'd consider him a stop gap measure, WI should be developing their young fast bowlers, they have the history and they need to get it back to present. i think carlos brathwaite and jason holder are 2 great prospects for them, but holder probably needs to add a bit more pace otherwise he needs to look at joel garner footage.

Tiger444 · #**127** April 18, 2012, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gowza
i've heard a lot about barath as a talent, but from what i've personally seen of him i'm yet to see what that hype is all about. i watched that century against australia and kept thinking what all the fuss is about. he must have some sort of talent if lara thinks he has something about him but he needs to go back to domestics and work on some things imo. bravo has developed really really nicely, this kid from what he's shown so far could be one of the best or even the best of his generation/era and i say that knowing he has to compete with the likes of umar akmal, chandimal etc. k powell is obviously a talent, he's performed pretty well so far in test cricket, which is not easy so there is something there. i've heard they have a kid last name carter who is talent (although apparently he hasn't performed very consistently. people have a go at k brathwaite saying he hasn't got the shots/talent but the thing is i've heard that he's a really hard worker and he's clearly mentally tough already and patient so he has a lot going for him imo.

as far as fidel goes it's a real shame to hear you say he should quit tests but i'd say your right in saying it. and your also right about roach, he's starting to come good now. now to ravi rampaul, i'd consider him a stop gap measure, WI should be developing their young fast bowlers, they have the history and they need to get it back to present. i think carlos brathwaite and jason holder are 2 great prospects for them, but holder probably needs to add a bit more pace otherwise he needs to look at joel garner footage.

Well I think it's because he came in with a lot of big scores when he was young and was really consistent. He was averaging a 50 in both FC's and List A's which is unheard of these days in WI. I feel he's got a very compact technique and temperamentally sound. I believe what's hindering him is confidence. Once he gets a big score, he'll become confident. Also I don't get why people knock on Brathwaite for his talent. I think people that say that didn't see enough clips of his batting when he was young. He's got great hand-eye coordination and can play some really nice orthodox shots.

I agree with you that Rampaul is more of a stop gap solution. I believe before anybody gets a chance, Russell should be the 1 who should come in. He's proven already how dangerous he can be with the ball and is a very prospect with the bat. I would definitely take him in.

Gowza · #**128** April 18, 2012, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiger444
Well I think it's because he came in with a lot of big scores when he was young and was really consistent. He was averaging a 50 in both FC's and List A's which is unheard of these days in WI. I feel he's got a very compact technique and temperamentally sound. I believe what's hindering him is confidence. Once he gets a big score, he'll become confident. Also I don't get why people knock on Brathwaite for his talent. I think people that say that didn't see enough clips of his batting when he was young. He's got great hand-eye coordination and can play some really nice orthodox shots.

I agree with you that Rampaul is more of a stop gap solution. I believe before anybody gets a chance, Russell should be the 1 who should come in. He's proven already how dangerous he can be with the ball and is a very prospect with the bat. I would definitely take him in.

yes russell is a tremendous player

Tiger444 · #**129** April 18, 2012, 11:37 AM

Gowza mate since your an Aussie we should talk about your team as well. I'll give my opinions about some of the players. I believe that Cowan is more of a stop gap solution and the selectors should be looking at other options. Warner is a superb talent but is still far too edgy for a Test batsmen. He definitely has to tighten up his technique if he wants to become a class batsman. That being said, he's still young and has time to work on his game but has a long ways to go. I have to say that Watson has been a huge disappointment so far in his Test career but hasn't been surprising. His technique is not nearly compact enough to be a top order batsman at this level. It seems you can drive a truck through bat-pad gap. I believe he also has to work on his technique if he wants to become a class batsman. I hate say this because Ponting is a legend but maybe this is the time to go? If there is another high class talent coming in, he should probably hang up his boots and give that talent a go. Clarke and Hussey are performing beautifully as usual. Wade is also another guy that should be invested time in. I'm glad they decided to let Haddin go and give this young guy chances. He's got a ways to go but this experience should do him good.

As for the Aussie bowling, you guys seem really set with the pacers. Siddle, Hilfy, Harris are all veteran guys and not slowing down at all. Then you have the young pacers in Pattinson, Starc and Cummins who all have immense potential and will do really well for years to come. As for the spinners, Lyon is starting to come up very nicely which is great to see. He might not become an all time great but I definitely believe he'll be solid. Beer, however doesn't seem to be the long term answer and the selectors should look for another spinner who can perform well when they are in need of 2 spinners in a match.

What is your opinion about this team?

Gowza · #**130** April 18, 2012, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiger444
Gowza mate since your an Aussie we should talk about your team as well. I'll give my opinions about some of the players. I believe that Cowan is more of a stop gap solution and the selectors should be looking at other options. Warner is a superb talent but is still far too edgy for a Test batsmen. He definitely has to tighten up his technique if he wants to become a class batsman. That being said, he's still young and has time to work on his game but has a long ways to go. I have to say that Watson has been a huge disappointment so far in his Test career but hasn't been surprising. His technique is not nearly compact enough to be a top order batsman at this level. It seems you can drive a truck through bat-pad gap. I believe he also has to work on his technique if he wants to become a class batsman. I hate say this because Ponting is a legend but maybe this is the time to go? If there is another high class talent coming in, he should probably hang up his boots and give that talent a go. Clarke and Hussey are performing beautifully as usual. Wade is also another guy that should be invested time in. I'm glad they decided to let Haddin go and give this young guy chances. He's got a ways to go but this experience should do him good.

As for the Aussie bowling, you guys seem really set with the pacers. Siddle, Hilfy, Harris are all veteran guys and not slowing down at all. Then you have the young pacers in Pattinson, Starc and Cummins who all have immense potential and will do really well for years to come. As for the spinners, Lyon is starting to come up very nicely which is great to see. He might not become an all time great but I definitely believe he'll be solid. Beer, however doesn't seem to be the long term answer and the selectors should look for another spinner who can perform well when they are in need of 2 spinners in a match.

What is your opinion about this team?

well the aussie team atm is what it is because that's all we got tbh......we really don't have any better options other than older guys who don't have too much longer left i.e. david hussey, chris rogers etc. khwaja (did i spell it right?) he was meant to be a long term solution that didn't work out. warner was given a chance due to potential and although he has things to work on i reckon he's the best choice to take one of the opener spots atm. cowan i never really rated, saw his debuted match didn't reated him then but surprisingly to me the commentators of that match thought he would be a test prospect one day and look where he is, but yes stop gap presuming we can find someone (hughes was always meant to be a long term opener for us)......watson again is our best option atm....as far as ponting goes he's not what he use to be but better than the others in the country still, that's why they haven't brought anyone in for him imo. i mean we have guys like george bailey, steve smith, mark cosgrove, marsh maybe they should be given more chances, joe burns is doing well but i've never seen him so can't comment.

wade is our best keeper batsman i've no doubt about that, glad he's got his opportunity now.

as far as bowlers go, we are good with pacers. pattinson is the best prospect he'll be something special i think. cummins atm really just has pace, doesn't have the weapons that pattinson has. starc is decent, he'll be solid but i'm not sure he will be more than that....and as far as spinners go we have no one, steve smith they were trying to build as a good leg spin option, i'm not sure what he's doing with that but he hasn't really progressed.

Gowza · #**131** April 19, 2012, 09:33 PM

bishoo has been dropped for the 3rd test....kirk edwards is injured and can't play....fudadin has been called up. i reckon andrew richardson should been given some games, if they aren't calling up youngsters like holder and c brathwaite then richardson should get his chances.

Tiger444 · #**132** April 19, 2012, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gowza
well the aussie team atm is what it is because that's all we got tbh......we really don't have any better options other than older guys who don't have too much longer left i.e. david hussey, chris rogers etc. khwaja (did i spell it right?) he was meant to be a long term solution that didn't work out. warner was given a chance due to potential and although he has things to work on i reckon he's the best choice to take one of the opener spots atm. cowan i never really rated, saw his debuted match didn't reated him then but surprisingly to me the commentators of that match thought he would be a test prospect one day and look where he is, but yes stop gap presuming we can find someone (hughes was always meant to be a long term opener for us)......watson again is our best option atm....as far as ponting goes he's not what he use to be but better than the others in the country still, that's why they haven't brought anyone in for him imo. i mean we have guys like george bailey, steve smith, mark cosgrove, marsh maybe they should be given more chances, joe burns is doing well but i've never seen him so can't comment.

wade is our best keeper batsman i've no doubt about that, glad he's got his opportunity now.

as far as bowlers go, we are good with pacers. pattinson is the best prospect he'll be something special i think. cummins atm really just has pace, doesn't have the weapons that pattinson has. starc is decent, he'll be solid but i'm not sure he will be more than that....and as far as spinners go we have no one, steve smith they were trying to build as a good leg spin option, i'm not sure what he's doing with that but he hasn't really progressed.

Ya I think that Hughes is a better option then Cowan. Hughes is still a really young player and has tons of potential so he should be in the Test team. I thought Khawaja is a good player as well and should be in the team. Bailey and Marsh are good talents as well. So future looks good for Australia on the batting side.

I would say that Pattinson is the best young pace prospect right now in the world. He seems to have all the tools and is already a fully developed bowler. Also not to mention that he can hold his own with the bat. Cummins is definitely more raw but he's also very young and probably needs more time before he can be a good bowler. I think it's a better option to just develop Smith as a batsman. He didn't seem really any good with the ball and his strengths seem to lie with the bat.

Gowza · #**133** April 19, 2012, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiger444
Ya I think that Hughes is a better option then Cowan. Hughes is still a really young player and has tons of potential so he should be in the Test team. I thought Khawaja is a good player as well and should be in the team. Bailey and Marsh are good talents as well. So future looks good for Australia on the batting side.

I would say that Pattinson is the best young pace prospect right now in the world. He seems to have all the tools and is already a fully developed bowler. Also not to mention that he can hold his own with the bat. Cummins is definitely more raw but he's also very young and probably needs more time before he can be a good bowler. I think it's a better option to just develop Smith as a batsman. He didn't seem really any good with the ball and his strengths seem to lie with the bat.

you're more optimistic than me with aussies batting prospects. we all knew for the last 15 or so years australia has had a ridiculous amount of talent with the bat, it was similar to WI's fast bowlers back in the 70s/80s, not only was the quality incredible but the depth was amazing to. it's just to go from such dominant players to just average ones.

despite pattinson being the best prospect right now he is injury prone, i fear his career will be affected because he tends to get a lot of back injuries, i know he had a couple before making to the aussie side and he's had issues since he's been in the side to (he is out of this series now with a back problem).

Tiger444 · #**134** April 21, 2012, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gowza
you're more optimistic than me with aussies batting prospects. we all knew for the last 15 or so years australia has had a ridiculous amount of talent with the bat, it was similar to WI's fast bowlers back in the 70s/80s, not only was the quality incredible but the depth was amazing to. it's just to go from such dominant players to just average ones.

despite pattinson being the best prospect right now he is injury prone, i fear his career will be affected because he tends to get a lot of back injuries, i know he had a couple before making to the aussie side and he's had issues since he's been in the side to (he is out of this series now with a back problem).

Ya it's understandable to see being pessimistic with the batting talent right now with Australia. Countries in general go through tough times and right now with Australia in rebuilding mode, some of the players will be frustrating but knowing the class of the Australian FC system, I'm sure class players will start coming out and performing.

Ya it's unfortunate that Pattinson is having so much trouble with his back. Hopefully it doesn't hinder him too much because he's a great talent.

Maysun · #**135** April 24, 2012, 10:48 AM

Wade scores his maiden century, and what a way to do it. Not on the easiest of the pitches and with the tail enders. BRAVO!

Gowza · #**136** April 24, 2012, 06:56 PM

^^pretty epic the way he did it to, hit a bunch of 6's and 2's as he was drawing closer, one over he was in the 70s the next it was high 90s. shut clarke up to saying he wants haddin back, how disrespectful towards wade.

Dilscoop · #**137** April 25, 2012, 01:28 AM

^ Clarke said that? I don't expect that from Clarke.

But Haddin is done for good. He is a trashole. Not to mention how horrible of he is at his job. Also showed what kind of a character he is when he decided to quit and go home at the beginning of this tour. He just gave up like a lil femaledog.

zsayeed · #**138** April 26, 2012, 01:52 PM

http://www.espncricinfo.com/west-ind...ry/562851.html

NoName · #**139** April 26, 2012, 08:34 PM

Congratz Shivnarine, probably one of the last few, if not last, legend in the West Indies.

Tiger444 · #**140** April 27, 2012, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dilscoop
^ Clarke said that? I don't expect that from Clarke.

But Haddin is done for good. He is a trashole. Not to mention how horrible of he is at his job. Also showed what kind of a character he is when he decided to quit and go home at the beginning of this tour. He just gave up like a lil femaledog.

I heard he went back because his wife was having a baby and he needed to go back. I don't understand what the point is to call Haddin names like that. Very unnecessary and immature stuff.

Tiger444 · #**141** April 27, 2012, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zsayeed

http://www.espncricinfo.com/west-ind...ry/562851.html

Congrats to Shivnarine Chanderpaul for such a great achievement. 1 of the great batsmen to play this game. I believe he still has some playing time left in the tank and should continue to play. He could really help this team continue to progress.

Tiger444 · #**142** April 27, 2012, 08:46 AM

What ails Australia's best and brightest?

The cream of the next generation of batsmen seem to be struggling with technical flaws

There have been an alarming number of Test and Sheffield Shield batting collapses of late. From Australia's calamitous 47, to India's frequent capitulations, New Zealand's recent dramatic middle-order loss of 5 for 0, and Queensland almost surrendering the Sheffield Shield final - batting performances in the longer versions seem to have dropped off dramatically.

Perhaps we can blame the wickets. Groundsmen have seemingly been less inclined to roll out flat, docile pitches. James Sutherland's pleas last summer for better Shield pitches have fallen on deaf ears. Or maybe the new breed of bowling coach has stolen a march on his batting counterparts. Certainly Craig McDermott seems to have found the right ingredient for Australia's young band of quicks.

Or are batting techniques in a downward spiral? Perhaps the T20 catch-cry, "Clear the front foot and swing as hard as possible", is playing havoc with the techniques of young batsmen.

During another highly enjoyable summer in the Sheffield Shield, I had lots of chances to get up close and personal with several fringe Test batsmen. The struggles with technique of most were noticeable. For years as Australia ruled the cricket world, we were blessed with champions who churned out thousands of first-class runs before being selected - Mike Hussey passed 10,000 before his ascendency, and before that, Matthew Hayden must have despaired of ever getting a decent go at Test level.

Now as the guard changes, opportunities arrive for the new generation sooner than they did in the past - David Warner was around the 1000-run first-class mark when he got his baggy green. It has underlined the indifferent seasons the likes of Phil Hughes, Usman Khawaja, Shaun Marsh and Callum Ferguson have had.

The cricket public expects these young batsmen to have everything mentally and technically figured out when they are chosen, and that they should be the finished article, with complete understanding of their own games. Some, like Steve Smith, seem to be sorting things out, but others appear to have a fair way to go.

Perhaps my most fascinating time on the cricket field this year was stationed at mid-off while Andrew McDonald went to work on each of these young batsmen with his exceptionally intelligent medium-pacers - and talked me through his tactics. Without the gift of pace, "Ronnie" has had to learn the skill of bowling inside and out, and his mastery on a helpful pitch is comparable to any I've seen.

I'd reckon quite a few young hopefuls on Shield wickets this summer found batting against his crafty medium pace far tougher technically than fending off Brett Lee at the WACA ground. In the last round of Shield fixtures, Victoria overcame a disappointing New South Wales, with Ronnie bagging amazing match figures of 6 for 50 from 34 overs. In the process he passed the bats of Hughes and Khawaja with alarming regularity.

Hughes' shortcomings have been widely critiqued; less so Khawaja's. I first noticed his difficulty against the away-swinging ball in county cricket last year. In overcast conditions against a Tiflex ball that seemed to go around corners, Khawaja's open blade and front-on position had the slips cordon licking their lips - and sure enough, he obliged twice. In that game against Victoria he was twice out caught behind - a notable penchant that oppositions are sure to be pencilling into their black books.

In conversation with Ronnie and coach Greg Shipperd afterwards, it was commented on how far around Khawaja was turning his back foot during shots. The textbook says the back foot should be pointing towards point, not the bowler. That's causing his back hip and shoulder to swivel around, so that he is "squaring up". Often he seemed to be missing Ronnie's deliveries by six inches. It would seem to be a problem that can be solved, but the question is, does he know he is doing it? And if so, does he know how to fix it?

Swivelling into a front-on position is a left-hander's curse. Hughes also suffers from it, as Chris Martin managed to expose. The difficulty is that these two exceptionally gifted players are trying to fix things under the glare of an impatient media and public, and are feeling the pressure of expectation. The question for each is: when and how to fix it?

I've never believed in the notion of not working on technique because a match is pending. Should we take note of the fact that the top golf pros always have swing coaches on hand? To be the best you can be, you have to keep adjusting until most avenues are exhausted and discarded - even if that means doing it on match eve. Many will argue otherwise, and they will have valid points, but to get closer to the end of the road, experimentation needs to be continual. Sometimes it will be one step forward and two steps back, but that is the nature of the beast of batting.

Marsh is a southpaw with problems different from those of his NSW counterparts. His stem from his trigger movements - he doesn't have any. That's not to say that kind of technique hasn't been extremely effective for others. Hayden stood still and moved just once in his strokeplay - forward to full balls and back to shorter ones; but Hayden is a monster of a man who used his height to sublime and brutish effectiveness - often employing it to lean into wide balls as his foot went straight down the wicket.

Early in his innings, especially, Marsh often moves across very late, presenting his pad as a target and causing his swing to not come down in a straight line. When in form it all works like clockwork and he is imperious. When lacking form, it looks robotic and static.

Ferguson is another who could perhaps think about operating more in straight lines. He is a very clean hitter of the ball, but with a backswing heading towards gully it's almost impossible to be consistently meeting the ball with the full face of the bat. His line of swing is nice and straight when he drives half volleys, but when he has to defend he sometimes chops down on balls as his bat heads in the direction of midwicket.

Ronnie picked up on it and sent one straight through a gap between bat and pad. He then nicked Ferguson out in the return fixture. It is a curious technical dilemma, which might explain why Ferguson's one-day record is so good and his four-day one disappointing. In the shorter formats there is less defending and therefore his problem is less exposed. He is perhaps very much aware of it, but the skill is to fix it.

While no doubt all four are admirers of Simon Katich's toughness and resilience, I sometimes wonder if they have considered the merits of the somewhat ungainly Katich method of moving across and standing in the so-called corridor of uncertainty. Ugly as he might look to many, Katich is perfectly upright and balanced, his head is over the line of the ball, he knows exactly where his stumps are, and he plays in straight lines. Once he's settled, the bowlers are forced to bowl something other than line and length in the corridor, and Katich has been able to cash in, particularly when they try to hit his exposed leg stump.

Smith played McDonald best of all at the SCG. He was much more selective of the wide ones he loves to thrash through the covers, and there were fewer hoicks over cow corner, yet he didn't lose his ability to despatch bad balls to the fence.

All the five batsmen mentioned are naturally talented players and have been singled out by the national selectors. All have good records in T20 but have some difficulty adapting to the different demands of each form of the game.

Just about any top-class batsman will be able to reel off the mentors who have had the most influence on him. Whether it is fathers or coaches or team-mates or even opposition players, these people are vital in spotting problems and helping fix them. But the demands of T20 have added a new dimension to batting techniques. Teams everywhere are splashing out on full-time bowling coaches, but seem less inclined to recruit batting coaches.

Perhaps a new type of batting coach is needed - a coach who has played T20 and is skilled in converting players back into the techniques of the first-class game rather than the other way round. When that happens, the batting collapses that are causing such consternation in cricket circles may become a thing of the past.

Source: Cricinfo

zsayeed · #**143** April 27, 2012, 11:07 AM

West Indies always lacks somewhere...if only they clicked better. Tail always gave them trouble, and the batsmen have hard time amongst good times. They could have done so much better!

Tiger444 · #**144** April 27, 2012, 11:48 AM

It's really a shame that the WI selectors continue to leave out a guy like Gayle out of the team. Their top order is just way too young and inexperienced. Having a guy like Gayle alongsides Barath, Brathwaite, and Powell could do wonders for them. Also I know I've dismissed the notion of having Pollard for Test matches, but watching the way Sammy has batted, I think Pollard could be a very good Test batsman as well. He's also really young still so he has plenty of time to learn. Bottom line is that if you continue to leave your best players out, your not going to be able to beat teams like Australia.