Bangladesh outperforming India

[imran78]

Came across this interesting article by a West Bengal journalist, Sharmila Bose. Its a great read and very enlightening as well as heartening.

Bangladesh is outperforming India � and fellow Bengalis across the border � in key indicators in health, education and gender parity. If it stays on this path, in another decade Bangladeshi society will be transformed, reports Sarmila Bose.

......

Bangladesh�s imperious neighbour has been slower to take notice, distracted perhaps by its grander ambitions on the world stage. Besides, India�s interest in Bangladesh seemed dominated by alleged Islamist terrorists or illegal migrants, and it busied itself with fencing out unwelcome �infiltration� from all directions. Meanwhile, as the UNDP�s Human Development Report (HDR 2005) points out, Bangladesh now beats India in a whole range of social indicators in health, education and gender equality.

For instance, Bangladesh�s Infant Mortality Rate (IMR) is now 46 per 1000 live births according to the Human Development Report (HDR) 2005, while India�s is 63. Bangladesh�s Under-Five mortality rate is 69 per 1000 live births, while India�s is 87. In both of these statistics, Bangladesh used to be far worse off than India. In 1970, its IMR was 145 (to India�s 127) and Under-Five mortality rate was 239 (to India�s 202). In 1990, as Bangladesh entered the era of multi-party democracy, its IMR was 94 per 1000, while India�s was 80. Bangladesh has reduced fertility rates at a much faster rate than India.

While Bangladesh�s literacy rate (41 per cent) is much lower than India�s (61 per cent), the future looks to be quite different. Bangladesh has achieved close to 100 per cent gross primary school enrolment rates with a net primary enrolment rate in the same league as India�s (84 per cent or 86 per cent, as per HDR 2005 and World Bank 2005 estimates, to India�s 87 per cent). In addition, it has eliminated the gender gap in both primary and secondary school enrolment � an achievement nothing short of spectacular in a poor, traditional society in a region plagued with gender discrimination.

Bangladesh�s female to male ratio in primary enrolment is 1.04 according to HDR 2005, to India�s 0.94. Bangladesh�s female to male ratio in secondary enrolment is 1.11.

A World Bank report on Bangladesh�s progress towards Millennium Development Goals notes, �At virtually every age, Bangladeshi girls have higher rates of school attendance than Indian girls.� The report states that Bangladesh is the only country in South Asia other than Sri Lanka to have achieved parity in male and female enrolments at both the primary and the secondary levels.

.....

Some of these statistics may not be precisely accurate or strictly comparable. Concerns remain regarding the quality of education and dropout rates in Bangladesh. However, successive UNDP Human Development Reports, assessments by the World Bank [Hossain (2004), Deolalikar (2005)], or scholars such as Jean Dreze, do not doubt the general trend that Bangladesh is outperforming India � and, as evident from the above, fellow Bengalis across the border � in key indicators in health, education and gender parity. If it stays on this path, in another decade Bangladeshi society will be transformed.

Bangladesh�s success is due to targeted policies and effective implementation. It increased public spending on education by more than 50 per cent since 1990 and spends 45.1 per cent of it on primary levels. Though the education system is centralised, the provision of education is highly pluralistic, with NGOs playing a significant part in service delivery. Bangladesh used innovative, targeted interventions to attract the poor and girl students to school. The Food for Education programme provided grain (later changed to cash subsidies, with payments made to mothers) to poor families if they sent their children to school. The Female Secondary Stipends programme provided stipends for girls. Subsidies were linked to attendance and performance. They have additional benefits such as delaying the marriage age for girls.

Full Article: Left Behind - By Bangladesh

Seems like the BD government is at least doing something right among all the corruption and hartals and political cat-fighting.

[Dream theater]

These statistics have been out there for a while.

But one striking thing we cant afford to ignore is that Despite India's claim of Bangladesh being a islamist terrorist taleban state we do send our female to school and more importantly encourage them to do so . The Indian theory have some thing wrong I suppose.

[billah]

Bangladesh also ranks much higher than all of her neighbors in a key factor: Empowerment of Women.

One very important note to add here also: India has peoples of Indian origin in almost every key position in these world organizations such as ADB, UNDP, WHO & others. If there is chance of manipulated figures (I strongly believe there are), it must be in India's favor.

India has Insraeli style PR machine for propagandize its own people about it's economy. But that is not enough to hide facts such as in the last 3-4 years TENS OF THOUSANDS Indian farmers commited MASS SUICIDE to protest poverty, taxation and debt.

Reality bites. In 15 more years, when the ever talked-about buying power of the Indian "Emerging Middle Class" will fail to show up in the world stage, watch them tack the blame on all their neighbors.

Yes, there is poverty in Bangladesh. But unless you have travelled India extensively or have lived there, you will not know the deep chasm of India's inhumane poverty and social injustices. Yes, in the last 100 years, the Bengal region has seen more than it's share of poverty through several famine and large scale natural disaster. So, our generation has some inherent belief that we are somehow the lowest of the low. The truth is, and this may be even surprising to some of us, that Bengal was ALWAYS historically more prosperous than the rest of the subcontinent.

In the Bangladesh model, I see us being similar to Indonesia, Malayasia and other pacific rim countries, than Indian or Paki model of economy. Since her independence, India had kept a 4-5 % meaningless(since it is generally offset by inflation and other factors) GDP growth rate for ages and ages. This rate was comically branded by the world economists as the "Hindu GDP".

Our West Bengal counterpart has been having many such remorses these days, why they are ruled by communists, for God's sake. Bangladesh, slowly, but surely, is moving away from the politics of "Bandh". Hartals are increasingly unpopular in Bangladesh, regardless of party affiliation. These are good signs.

[Rubu]

I think in one case india stays much ahead of bangladesh. the morality of political leaders.

and that can make a whole lot of difference. only if our politicians had a moral to immoral ratio of 1:1e1000, we'd have been much better off by now.

[billah]

India's defense minister was fired because he stole the "Coffin Money" of the dead national heroes of Kargil.

But that's not the worst part, what is just stupendously astonishing, he was reappointed by BJP.

India's political leaders were directly involved in ordering genocide of the Sikhs, after the killing of Indira Gandhi, a tragedy that is just recently being exposed.

India's political leaders were directly involved in ordering revenge-killing of minorities in the medievel-style race riots in Gujarat recently.

Ask a South Indian, he will tell you how Mahatma Gandhi backed away from abolishing the evil Caste system of Indian society. He backed off when he had the power and popularity to support the movement.

In local level, here's a story ( I don't remember the details). This story made national headline in all over India. In one state, a young couple were burnt alive by a group of villagers. Their crime: they fell in love with each other, being of two different caste. Police later arrested a large number of participants of this vile deed. After a few days, everyone was set free. The Police Chief of the state had to answer to Loksava (Parliament) about this. He said it is the state politicians such as the Prime ministers and others that pressured him into releasing all the murderers. Now, here comes the amazing part: the accused politicans openly said that this type of vigilante brand of public justice is necessary to uphold the values of the society!

Indian politicans, if not far worse, are not any better than ours. This specially applies to the hate breed BJP cultivated during its time in power.

[bharat]

Originally posted by Rubu
I think in one case india stays much ahead of bangladesh. the morality of political leaders.

and that can make a whole lot of difference. only if our politicians had a moral to immoral ratio of 1:1e1000, we'd have been much better off by now.

I dont know abt politicians in BD but I can say for sure that politicians are equally bad in India ..could be worse !

There is a small correction abt the "Hindhu Growth Rate " ..India's growth rate for the past 10 years has been howvering around 6.5 to 7 and is currently at 8.3% second only to Chian (which is expectected to taper down once it devalues its inflated currency )..The Hindhu growth rate of 3.5-4 % was used to refers to India's GDP until the early 80's not anymore ,

As per BD's develoment ..I always (my personal beleif ) Bengali's have always been one of the most intellegent and progressive people ..so the results are no suprise .........

I have an observation here though ...India is expected to be the next superpower
(in 20 + years ) with most of the poverty expected to be gone , and believe me it is making up for the lost time (first 3-4 decades after independence) ...and talking of evils in a society/country ..evereyone has them u need not go furthur than u'rself to find them !(applies to everey country/society ..again this is my beleif)

My last comment is only to keep things in prespective

[Rubu]

whatever you say, I can't beleive there are any worse people anywhere than bangladeshi politicians.

India's defense minister was fired because he stole the "Coffin Money" of the dead national heroes of Kargil.

At least he got fired for sometimes. If it was in bangladesh, he would never got fired. at worse, he had to share some of those coffin money with the people who would fire him.

taking into account the racism, it case is even worse in bangladesh because people do not have racism in their mind in bangladesh. still politicians manages to do whatever they wants whenever they want and however they wants, without the help of people. now, you imagine if they got the help from people (talking about the burning - the politician and people were like minded) what would they do.

and if you look for example, prime minister giving flower to known terrorist to buying crap aeroplanes what is not there.

i mean, sure indian politicans are doing many things bad, but they are doing some good things too. show me one single good thing one politican ever did for bangladesh since her birth.

Edited on, October 14, 2005, 8:24 PM GMT, by Rubu.

[AsifTheManRahman]

>> always (my personal beleif ) Bengali's have always been one of the most intellegent and progressive people

we're intelligent?



>>India's defense minister was fired because he stole the "Coffin Money" of the dead national heroes of Kargil.


he got fired? the indian govt must be stupid.

[Tintin]

India's defense minister was fired because he stole the "Coffin Money" of the dead national heroes of Kargil.

George Fernandes resigned after tehelka.com did a sting operation which found three or four soldiers who were members of the Defense ministry (of ranks up to Major General) who were in charge of evaluating weapons for purchase were found to accept bribes. They were all court martialed and were given 1-4 years rigorous imprisonment. Fernandes didn't 'steal' money and it had nothing to do with Kargil.

Too bad DJ Sahastra is not around

[imtiaz82]

Originally posted by Rubu
I think in one case india stays much ahead of bangladesh. the morality of political leaders.

and that can make a whole lot of difference. only if our politicians had a moral to immoral ratio of 1:1e1000, we'd have been much better off by now.

Another way Indians are better than us is the way they portray their country. I have browsed through many Indian forums/sites they always show the positive image of "shining India". The GDP growth rate, the IITs etc. Most shun putting news on Gujrat riot, human right violation in Kashmir or caste system. While we Bangladeshis are the best in portraying the negative images as much as possible.

Even in this forum, there is a thread dedicated to show the "Islamic terrorism" and "Talebanization" of Bangladesh. These kind of news will only strengthen the negative images foreigners have of our country.

Indian newspapers like "Times of India", "Hindustan times" etc are always on the forefront to show the best developements in their country. I have been following the newspapers closely and without a few news here and there, they hardly criticize the issues I mentioned above. While dailystar, prothom alo and other Bangladeshi newspapers are competing to show the dark side our of our nation. No wonder the whole world thinks nothing but "flood" or "Islamic terrorism" regarding Bangladesh !

[Pundit]

Lets see who wins, now - Bangladeshis rooting for India, or Bangladeshis rooting for Bangladesh, or ..that other despicable combination !

No politician is perfect. Infact, most are far from it. Unlike Bangladesh, India had astute and relatively honest founding fathers who at the least had the vision to build some semblance of respect within the machinery of state governance.

This is how low Bangladeshis have stooped to - they are willing to condemn their religion even if it serves to criticize the political party they do not support. Oh, but I forgot, those are our communist/socialist honchos, many of whom are members here.

[Hasib]

Originally posted by AsifTheManRahman
>> always (my personal beleif ) Bengali's have always been one of the most intellegent and progressive people

we're intelligent?

Go and read the history of Bengal...as i was telling "Nasifkhan" the other day no great civilization lasts for ever and Bangladesh is the remains of one

[guy_zin]

Originally posted by Rubu
I think in one case india stays much ahead of bangladesh. the morality of political leaders.

and

show me one single good thing one politican ever did for bangladesh since her birth.

ye, certainly bangladesh is lagging farrrrrrr behind....

just read the news & judge it for yourself !

this buffoon in the news happened to be the union minister of state for ...none other than HOME ministry( may be for that particular reason he thought like, it's his own home /toilet everywhere..


and, just imagin the same for our political leaders(oops!! xcept the Position & Opposition leaders for obvious reasons!!)

Mantriji, ye kya ho raha hai?

[bombayrocks]

well well guyz best of luck!
sumthin postive is being displayed in da forum 4 da first time regarding india.i m glad dat ppl lik imran take such an initiative!
keep ur gud work going buddy!
hope 2 c more of ur threads.

[Ahmed_B]

Originally posted by bombayrocks
sumthin postive is being displayed in da forum 4 da first time regarding india.

Just incase you had an strong pre-conception about this forum as being 'india-hater'... you better start opening your eyes. There will always be people all over the world as well as in this forum who will have either good or bad opinions about your country. And the moment you (or anyone from any country) step out of your own country/native forum and join a place in another region... the first thing you will have to learn is to be patient about criticisms (both good and bad) about yourself, your nation and everything that belongs to you. That stands not just for India... that is the first principal for anyone from any nation including us, bangladeshis. That's always the first step towards making friends from another country.

[Carte Blanche]

bombayrocks,

Try to tread in a Bangladesh fan's shoes for a while. Imagine one of us visiting an established cricket nation's forum and posting there regularly. That person will have to grow a super-thick skin to stomach all the BD bashing. I know, I know! We are a weak team, and we deserve it, right? But in all fairness, India has its share of good and bad too. Some forumers try to underscore the bad part in a brazen way, some are subtle about it, some do not engage in it at all. if you manage to weed out the first kind, you will find the rest of us uniformly pleasant (except for technical discussions, where every team's flaws are magnified). I suggest you take Ahmed's wise advice, and you will learn to like us more

[al Furqaan]

and they say muslims cannot treat women...

[Dream theater]

Originally posted by billah
Bangladesh also ranks much higher than all of her neighbors in a key factor: Empowerment of Women.

One very important note to add here also: India has peoples of Indian origin in almost every key position in these world organizations such as ADB, UNDP, WHO & others. If there is chance of manipulated figures (I strongly believe there are), it must be in India's favor.

India has Insraeli style PR machine for propagandize its own people about it's economy. But that is not enough to hide facts such as in the last 3-4 years TENS OF THOUSANDS Indian farmers commited MASS SUICIDE to protest poverty, taxation and debt.

Reality bites. In 15 more years, when the ever talked-about buying power of the Indian "Emerging Middle Class" will fail to show up in the world stage, watch them tack the blame on all their neighbors.

Yes, there is poverty in Bangladesh. But unless you have travelled India extensively or have lived there, you will not know the deep chasm of India's inhumane poverty and social injustices. Yes, in the last 100 years, the Bengal region has seen more than it's share of poverty through several famine and large scale natural disaster. So, our generation has some inherent belief that we are somehow the lowest of the low. The truth is, and this may be even surprising to some of us, that Bengal was ALWAYS historically more prosperous than the rest of the subcontinent.

In the Bangladesh model, I see us being similar to Indonesia, Malayasia and other pacific rim countries, than Indian or Paki model of economy. Since her independence, India had kept a 4-5 % meaningless(since it is generally offset by inflation and other factors) GDP growth rate for ages and ages. This rate was comically branded by the world economists as the "Hindu GDP".

Our West Bengal counterpart has been having many such remorses these days, why they are ruled by communists, for God's sake. Bangladesh, slowly, but surely, is moving away from the politics of "Bandh". Hartals are increasingly unpopular in Bangladesh, regardless of party affiliation. These are good signs.

Thanks Billah Bhai for saying the absolute truth.

I believe one of the reasons Bangladesh is facing barrage of propaganda specially from writers with Indian origin and newspapers is we are moving towards the right direction. Our look east policy though at the initial phase will be gruitful in the near future. India see this as their 6 billion dollar market escaping from them.

For some here, Yes we Bangladeshis are intelligent and have lots of potential. just like any other nation or race. We for sure are moving towards the right direction. It will take time though to get rid of those corrupt politicians and other obstacles.

:

[Dream theater]

Originally posted by Rubu
At least he got fired for sometimes. If it was in bangladesh, he would never got fired. at worse, he had to share some of those coffin money with the people who would fire him.
Edited on, October 14, 2005, 8:24 PM GMT, by Rubu.

There are examples of Bangladeshi ministers got fired too. Just recently, energy minister got fired for taking a lavish car from a oil company. If you remember another minister namely Amir Koshru Mahmud also resigned. During 1990's another Minister Jahirudding also resigned because of Urea Fertiliser scandal.

Dont forget we are new to this democracy thing.Its been less than 15 years. Continious democracy will definitely filter out the corrupt politicians eventually. ( Not entirely though).

Your post is immaure and lacks real substance. It does project frustration. But there is nothing out there which could make you say India is just doing everything right and we are not. We have to believe our country and people more than that.

[Tigers_eye]

Can we donate people to other countries yearly basis? 1st in list would be our politicians, then their second hand man, and after that the mastans they cherish. Last but not the least (since we have RAB) the police force from the top. That would take care of the population growth we are facing. The other day in Channel I they were saying by 2050 we will have 25 (koti) crore (sp). Mind nubbing. We can then easily out perform India and challenge SL.

[bombayrocks]

carte blanche i neva said bangladesh is a weaker team den india.
i think both of our countries hav cum 2 da same level!
howeva buddy u dint reopen dat thread

[GuruTM]

In some certain(limited areas) sectors there is no doubt that Bangladesh is out performing India. But this is due to stable democracy in our country. It will be better once we are not cursed by "hartals" anymore. But india being outperformed is largely due to its defense budget and failure of the central government to take the initiative to each and every states. And having a population density much better than Bangladesh, india should have outperformed Bangladesh in every way. But that is not the case.
So we Bangladeshis are doing something lot better than the indians. I want to ask this forum a question.

What is the percentage of population between the two countries goes overseas to earn money for their family and country?

If you can answer it correctly, you will get the answer for why Bangladeshis are outperforming indians in some sectors.

[GuruTM]

Originally posted by imtiaz82

Another way Indians are better than us is the way they portray their country. I have browsed through many Indian forums/sites they always show the positive image of "shining India". The GDP growth rate, the IITs etc. Most shun putting news on Gujrat riot, human right violation in Kashmir or caste system. While we Bangladeshis are the best in portraying the negative images as much as possible.

Even in this forum, there is a thread dedicated to show the "Islamic terrorism" and "Talebanization" of Bangladesh. These kind of news will only strengthen the negative images foreigners have of our country.

Indian newspapers like "Times of India", "Hindustan times" etc are always on the forefront to show the best developements in their country. I have been following the newspapers closely and without a few news here and there, they hardly criticize the issues I mentioned above. While dailystar, prothom alo and other Bangladeshi newspapers are competing to show the dark side our of our nation. No wonder the whole world thinks nothing but "flood" or "Islamic terrorism" regarding Bangladesh !

If you start thinking negative you will end up getting negatives. Thank you imtiaz for finding the flaw in our approach. There is negatives and always will be. But you should stay positive to get the positives. It doesn't help by picturing our country the way our newspapers does.