Bangladesh performance systemic of the country's problems...

[jabbar]

I think that the BD cricket teams' problems arise from systemic and inherent problems in Bangladeshi society.

I recall a remark made by someone in a thread about the second innings of 86 in the opening test match against Sri Lanka. He/she remarked that the players only bat enough so that they can stay in the team - not to win matches. I am ashamed and afraid to say this, but this is the ethos of the general population of Bangladesh:

"Look out for yourself, and try and coast through as easily as possible. Don't do anymore than what is required for you to survive and get by."

The batsman played like men who are comfortable and secure about there place in the team. "Ah, it's OK, Murali is a brilliant bowler, so there's no shame in losing to a champion. Why not I go for a big, stupid slog. If it pulls off, great, if it doesn't, no biggie - my place in this side is safe..."

I cannot tell you how p**** off I am right now. First of all, my beloved Aussies have lost to a bunch of Poms, and now the BD team have disgraced themselves again after showing so much promise. Well, at least the Aussies haven't disgraced themselves...


Edited on, September 15, 2005, 3:40 AM GMT, by jabbar.

[rohitha]

Actually Jabbar this " ethos " you talk about plagues the entire Sub Continent. May be BD is at the bottom of the pile but India, Pak and SL are not so far.

We, who find it hard to think like the rest have to put up with this ethos on a daily basis. Is it no wonder why we as a region remain so backward compared to other Asian countries like Japan, S.Korea, Thaiwan, China and Singapore?

However shaping a nation's Cricketing culture is more manageable than shaping an entire nation. Out of the teams in the Sub Continent at least I'm proud that SL has a well-oiled time-tested mechanism in place to produce decent Cricketers.

But then again SL is relatively a small country with 18 million people and a literacy rate of almost 99%. Its not the same when dealing with larger countries with a myriad of social and economic problems.

[jabbar]

I agree with you that the problem is common throughout the subcontinent. I guess I say this out of despair more than anything. I would love nothing more than to see Bangladesh rise up as a nation and fulfil their potential.

As far as Sri Lanka is concerned, yes, they are definitely an anomoly. They are a very intelligent country, and cricket being a game of intellectuals, they are naturally doing well at cricket. However, I feel that Bangladesh is also an intelligent country and can similarly perform well at cricket. If only they could drop this harmful ethos that seems to be growing day-by-day.... The Bangladesh cricket team could lead the nation itself out of the gloominess it is in right now....

Edited on, September 19, 2005, 2:49 AM GMT, by jabbar.

[aosaif]

look man, sri lanka didn't have it as hard as we did. We inherited a million different problems. Main factor is our population is outrageously large for such a small country. Forget about this "ethos" you are talk about.

[Arnab]

The "systemic" problem you refer to is not exactly the real "systemic" problem.

You need to trace the collective history of the countries of the subcontinent for the past few hundred years and explore its various dimensions to understand what shaped the mass psyche of the people of this country.

For example, Hegel started this kind of historical analysis in the context of Europe in the early 1800s. Then Marx built upon it in the late 1800s and since Marx we have the idea of socioeconomic "classes", then Trotsky talked about "objective historical processes" in early 1900s, and after the WW2 came Fukuyama's post-modernism which says that all kinds of historical analysis is bull, an ideology which, by the time we reach 2000, leaves a few generations of people all around the world (especially the last two generations, gen x-ers and gen y-ers) historically ignorant.

Now we have some young people raising some issues, trying to go back to the historical roots again. Jabbar's post is an elementary expression of that mentality. It's elementary now, but it should be nurtured and these ideas should be discussed more.

[rohitha]

Recently I met an official from Oxfam Charity (a Canadian) who has served in this region for nearly 15 years and he actually had some mixed feelings about the Sub Continental ethos which is our subject of discussion. It was his opinion that while on a mundane level we tend to see the negative side of things in the Sub Continent there are greater human values hidden beneath all this negativity which are priceless.

He specifically mentioned the family unit, respect for elders, hospitality and the willingness to share meagre resources even at levels of abject poverty - human values which are now alien to the West.

Of course on the negative side he mentioned the list which we are all too familiar with - corruption, dishonesty, lazyness, indiscipline, lack of work ethics ect ect.

[Arnab]

If you talk to an anthropologist, or more specifically an ethnographer, he probably wouldn't ascribe this set of bahavioral traits( family values, hospitality, laziness, etc.) to a certain "subcontinental ethos."

Donald Brown, Professor of Anthropology at the University of California, Santa Barbara, compiled in 1989 and published in 1991 a list of "Human Universals", behavioral aspects of humans that are common across ALL human societies all around the world, no matter how civilized or primitive they are.

The list omits near-uinversals (traits that most, but not all, cultures show) and conditional universals ("If a culture has trait A, it always has trait B").

Let's see if the traits you mention as part of the subcontinetal ethos are also contained in Brown's list of human universals, i.e., in ALL kinds of human societies.

Hospitality - check.
Generosity admired - check.
Kinship statuses - check.
Food sharing - check.
Reciprocal exchanges (of labor, goods, and services) -check.
Discrepancies between speech, thought and action - check.

Edited on, September 19, 2005, 2:03 PM GMT, by Arnab.

[rohitha]

Well he didn't say the good aspects were exclusive to the Sub Continent because I believe he has also served in some remote African countries. But taken as a "Region" I guess he would have seen these values as common mores to this region, both positive and negative.

[Arnab]

Sure, my point is that these values are universal human values that transcend any regional boudary.

[Ahmed_B]

Originally posted by jabbar
I think that the BD cricket teams' problems arise from systemic and inherent problems in Bangladeshi society.

It would probably be more appropriate if you had said 'inherent problems in Bangladesh's cricket development system' rather than the whole society(I think u mean more about the distorted political/economic structure).

If BD team had done as 'good' as the country is doing socio-politically... then BD Cricket team would not be playing Tests. They would be still struggling to attain ODI status. Cricket in BD has surely gone quite a distance ahead than many other major sectors of the country. Don't forget... that's one of the sole reasons that we all enjoy cricket so much... because it's one of the positive things we can talk about when it comes to BD.

[Tigers_eye]

BD mentality: Do not want to work but should be spoon fed. Politics: Get a cadre, join a mastan group, link with a party, loot the riches of others. Very little hard work involved. Literacy has no value when one can achieve higher status with out working hard. MP's chehara koi "shala chor" (generally speaking, ofcourse there are some few honest people).
BD Cricket: Practice? what is that? We can do it without it. No hard work necessary. If you want to beat jayasuriya then you must practice twice as much harder than him to be better than him. But who really believes it.

[rohitha]

Modern Japan I believe is a wonderful combination of true Asian values and the best the West can offer as exemplified in the tag line of their famous car - the LEXUS - Relentless Persuit of Perfection. I wish all Asian societies were like that !!

[samircreep]

I think what Arnab's point was that there's really nothing "Bangladeshi" about these values as most B'land fans tout from time to time.

I get this in international conferences a lot--Bangladeshis, specially politicians, claiming a bangalee authenticity to the above-mentioned values. When I remind them that I've observed the same values in Africa and Latin America, they really get defensive (and this is actually one "trait" Bangladeshis have a monopoly over).

It maes sense in a way in a resource poor country with a strong intellectual paucity. We gotta hold on to something right, however dubious the claims turn outto be?

Arnab, I like your comments dude.U smart.I'd like to have a chat with you one day about some stuff.

[Fazal]

Bangladesh performance systemic of the country's problems...


The words "Bangladesh" , "performance", and "systemic" all one after another really confused me. If any thing Bangladesh performance is "non-systemic", "random", and "unpredictable" than any think else. It has lots of spikes of hopes and failures with end result back to sqaure one (or close to it).

Edited on, September 19, 2005, 5:52 PM GMT, by Fazal.

[Arnab]

Fazal, you are probably confusing the terms "systemic" and "systematic."

"systemic" means "arising from a system." As in "Blame the system that created the problem."

"systamatic" means "taking the form of a system". As in "Solve the problem in a systematic way."

[Fazal]

Originally posted by Arnab
Fazal, you are probably confusing the terms "systemic" and "systematic."

You are right. I was confused. Even now I am confused (for different reason though).

I am a confused man. I just slept for 4 hour only. How come 48/4 becomes 400/7 ? From Hero to goat???? Am I still dreaming or what?